Another mass shooting at a Walmart in Virginia

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Deleted User 1990

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Yeah... That's all true. He was racist as hell.

The progression of this country has changed the goal to include everyone when it comes to freedom.

Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:57 pm Thomas Jefferson was a white supremacist. Read this paper I’m going to link. His words…..
I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind. …
If you don’t read Jefferson’s writings I’ll try and summarize - He starts off with talking about literal color of skin and why he determines that Whites are more attractive and smell better.

Sample of what Jefferson thought “ But never yet could I find that a black had uttered a thought above the level of plain narration; never see even an elementary trait of painting or sculpture. In music they are more generally gifted than the whites with accurate ears for tune and time, and they have been found capable of imagining a small catch. Whether they will be equal to the composition of a more extensive run of melody, or of complicated harmony, is yet to be proved.”

He gets a lot of credit for his “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights”. But he did not see the Black man as equal to him and if slaves were to be freed he wanted them colonized in Africa or elsewhere so blood was not mixed.

That fear of British colonialism was a separate issue. They were right to fear England, the tiny country got their paws in every country out there. These writings of Jefferson aren’t about that.








https://www.americanyawp.com/reader/the ... inia-1788/
BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:48 pm He meant white slavery.


He was still from the Britannia age, but he was making a new country with 85% remaining the same as British society, just less taxes…

“Rule Britannia, Britannia, rule the waves
Britons never, never, shall be slaves“

The ability to protect themselves was part of how they thought they would accomplish never becoming slaves. Another reason they made it illegal for Black people to have guns unless during a military exercise.

We’re still trying to not be slaves, we just make sure that goes for everyone on earth.
Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:32 pm

These didn’t age very well.

1. Free people who are armed and disciplined is a difficult thing to accomplish.

2. Not true. Free men need to be debarred the use of guns all the time.

3. I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

This is just gross. An abolitionist named Moncure Conway, noting Jefferson’s enduring reputation as a would-be emancipator, remarked scornfully, “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” He had no intention of freeing his slaves and continued his child abuse, child labor and slavery.

In the 1790’s when Jefferson was going over his profit and loss statements he realized he was making a 4 percent profit every year when another Black child was born. A win/win for Jefferson. Jefferson sees slavery as an investment strategy for his future.

“ He writes that an acquaintance who had suffered financial reverses “should have been invested in negroes.” He advises that if the friend’s family had any cash left, “every farthing of it [should be] laid out in land and negroes, which besides a present support bring a silent profit of from 5. to 10. per cent in this country by the increase in their value.””

When Jefferson died in 1826, 39 years after he claimed slavery should be abolished, his slaves were auctioned off. Children were separated from their parents. Wives from husbands. Jefferson knew this would happen. He was an evil man and the excuse of “those were the times” doesn’t fit.

It’s a good read from the Smithsonian.


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -35976004/
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Valentina327 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:20 am
WellPreserved wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:40 pm
Carpy wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:36 pm

I disagree. They understood the need for personal defense and the potential for the citizens to keep the government in check.

We gave you a Republic...if you can keep it. Ben Franklin.
And yet personal defense is not mentioned? IMO, the brevity the 2nd amendment in the US constitution makes it difficult to interpret what the founding fathers meant. Sure we can look at their writings, but do we need to look further than the Virginia Constitution?

That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.
The brevity is exactly what makes it so simple and straight forward. No interpretation or guess work needed.
And yet it wasn't until 2008 that the Supreme Court decided that the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution guarantees the right of individual Americans to keep and bear arms and that decision was split 5-4. Prior to Heller, the right to bare arms was thought to be a collective right, not an individual right.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
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Valentina327 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:38 am
PoplarGrove wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:35 pm
Carpy wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:05 pm

Driving is a privilege. Owning a gun is a constitutional right.
You asked what was considered easy. I told you.

The second amendment was created to give your citizens the right to a well regulated militia. I don't know about you but I thought Militias were groups that had trained people in them. People who have the temperament and ability to defend your country. If the founding fathers could see the destruction those few words have done to their country I think they would have been a whole hell of a lot more careful than they were when writing them.
Trained people are what comprises the armed forces. Private citizens comprise a militia.
In colonial times militias did train. A militia is still considered an organized group. The fact that your founding fathers defined it as a well regulated militia means they meant for it to be an organized group.

The National Guard is a militia
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Valentina327 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:32 am
Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:32 pm
Carpy wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:49 am

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…” – George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
These didn’t age very well.

1. Free people who are armed and disciplined is a difficult thing to accomplish.

2. Not true. Free men need to be debarred the use of guns all the time.

3. I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

This is just gross. An abolitionist named Moncure Conway, noting Jefferson’s enduring reputation as a would-be emancipator, remarked scornfully, “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” He had no intention of freeing his slaves and continued his child abuse, child labor and slavery.

In the 1790’s when Jefferson was going over his profit and loss statements he realized he was making a 4 percent profit every year when another Black child was born. A win/win for Jefferson. Jefferson sees slavery as an investment strategy for his future.

“ He writes that an acquaintance who had suffered financial reverses “should have been invested in negroes.” He advises that if the friend’s family had any cash left, “every farthing of it [should be] laid out in land and negroes, which besides a present support bring a silent profit of from 5. to 10. per cent in this country by the increase in their value.””

When Jefferson died in 1826, 39 years after he claimed slavery should be abolished, his slaves were auctioned off. Children were separated from their parents. Wives from husbands. Jefferson knew this would happen. He was an evil man and the excuse of “those were the times” doesn’t fit.

It’s a good read from the Smithsonian.


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -35976004/
Slavery of the Africans is not what he's referring to. It seems you're being intentionally obtuse.

Jefferson's mention of slavery was with respect to citizens not being a slave to their government. That's what they escaped by coming here - tyranny. It's what they sacrificed lives and money and homes for. It's what 2A is about. We need to keep our government in check in order to insure that they recall that THEY work for US.
This is just embarrassing. No comments after reading a statement that claims Jefferson wasn’t referring to “slavery of the Africans” ?
Deleted User 1990

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Lemons wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:06 pm
Valentina327 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:32 am
Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:32 pm

These didn’t age very well.

1. Free people who are armed and disciplined is a difficult thing to accomplish.

2. Not true. Free men need to be debarred the use of guns all the time.

3. I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

This is just gross. An abolitionist named Moncure Conway, noting Jefferson’s enduring reputation as a would-be emancipator, remarked scornfully, “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” He had no intention of freeing his slaves and continued his child abuse, child labor and slavery.

In the 1790’s when Jefferson was going over his profit and loss statements he realized he was making a 4 percent profit every year when another Black child was born. A win/win for Jefferson. Jefferson sees slavery as an investment strategy for his future.

“ He writes that an acquaintance who had suffered financial reverses “should have been invested in negroes.” He advises that if the friend’s family had any cash left, “every farthing of it [should be] laid out in land and negroes, which besides a present support bring a silent profit of from 5. to 10. per cent in this country by the increase in their value.””

When Jefferson died in 1826, 39 years after he claimed slavery should be abolished, his slaves were auctioned off. Children were separated from their parents. Wives from husbands. Jefferson knew this would happen. He was an evil man and the excuse of “those were the times” doesn’t fit.

It’s a good read from the Smithsonian.


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -35976004/
Slavery of the Africans is not what he's referring to. It seems you're being intentionally obtuse.

Jefferson's mention of slavery was with respect to citizens not being a slave to their government. That's what they escaped by coming here - tyranny. It's what they sacrificed lives and money and homes for. It's what 2A is about. We need to keep our government in check in order to insure that they recall that THEY work for US.
This is just embarrassing. No comments after reading a statement that claims Jefferson wasn’t referring to “slavery of the Africans” ?
He wasn’t…


He was referring to the slavery of who he considered his own people, who he considered full fledged Americans, and was basing his ideas on how to avoid slavery on the many different ways he saw it accomplished in his time…


He was racist, and owned slaves…that doesn’t mean he had bad ideas when it came to not becoming a slave himself.
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We have progressed but not nearly as fast as we should have. And we aren’t even there yet. People can dismiss Jefferson’s rantings of claiming that Black people were inferior claiming it was the times. But that’s not true. Plenty of people during that time period knew it was wrong.

Using quotes from Jefferson to justify gun use in 2022 is ridiculous. We don’t live like that anymore. The word militia is outdated and not used to describe our military. It’s like people quoting Donald Trump in 200 years. It shouldn’t happen.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:42 am Yeah... That's all true. He was racist as hell.

The progression of this country has changed the goal to include everyone when it comes to freedom.

Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:57 pm Thomas Jefferson was a white supremacist. Read this paper I’m going to link. His words…..
I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind. …
If you don’t read Jefferson’s writings I’ll try and summarize - He starts off with talking about literal color of skin and why he determines that Whites are more attractive and smell better.

Sample of what Jefferson thought “ But never yet could I find that a black had uttered a thought above the level of plain narration; never see even an elementary trait of painting or sculpture. In music they are more generally gifted than the whites with accurate ears for tune and time, and they have been found capable of imagining a small catch. Whether they will be equal to the composition of a more extensive run of melody, or of complicated harmony, is yet to be proved.
https://www.americanyawp.com/reader/the ... inia-1788/
BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:48 pm He meant white slavery.
We’re still trying to not be slaves, we just make sure that goes for everyone on earth.
Deleted User 1990

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We don’t live like what anymore?

We don’t have murder victims anymore? We do.

We don’t have dangers to our safety coming from others who might wish harm on us? We do.

We live in a country now where the military could fully handle any invasion with no help from the citizens ? They can’t. The country is too big for the military to cover every area if say three industrial military countries banded together and invaded.

Do we now live in a society where the police can handle any danger to the public or an individual, safely, at any time and in seconds? No we don’t, it takes minutes or even hours depending on how remote someone is. And lots of people think the police make things worse…





Every reasoning he gave for why we still need self protection is fully valid…
Lemons wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:40 pm We have progressed but not nearly as fast as we should have. And we aren’t even there yet. People can dismiss Jefferson’s rantings of claiming that Black people were inferior claiming it was the times. But that’s not true. Plenty of people during that time period knew it was wrong.

Using quotes from Jefferson to justify gun use in 2022 is ridiculous. We don’t live like that anymore. The word militia is outdated and not used to describe our military. It’s like people quoting Donald Trump in 200 years. It shouldn’t happen.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:42 am Yeah... That's all true. He was racist as hell.

The progression of this country has changed the goal to include everyone when it comes to freedom.

Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:57 pm Thomas Jefferson was a white supremacist. Read this paper I’m going to link. His words…..


If you don’t read Jefferson’s writings I’ll try and summarize - He starts off with talking about literal color of skin and why he determines that Whites are more attractive and smell better.

Sample of what Jefferson thought “ But never yet could I find that a black had uttered a thought above the level of plain narration; never see even an elementary trait of painting or sculpture. In music they are more generally gifted than the whites with accurate ears for tune and time, and they have been found capable of imagining a small catch. Whether they will be equal to the composition of a more extensive run of melody, or of complicated harmony, is yet to be proved.
https://www.americanyawp.com/reader/the ... inia-1788/

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BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:36 pm
Lemons wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:06 pm
Valentina327 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:32 am

Slavery of the Africans is not what he's referring to. It seems you're being intentionally obtuse.

Jefferson's mention of slavery was with respect to citizens not being a slave to their government. That's what they escaped by coming here - tyranny. It's what they sacrificed lives and money and homes for. It's what 2A is about. We need to keep our government in check in order to insure that they recall that THEY work for US.
This is just embarrassing. No comments after reading a statement that claims Jefferson wasn’t referring to “slavery of the Africans” ?
He wasn’t…


He was referring to the slavery of who he considered his own people, who he considered full fledged Americans, and was basing his ideas on how to avoid slavery on the many different ways he saw it accomplished in his time…


He was racist, and owned slaves…that doesn’t mean he had bad ideas when it came to not becoming a slave himself.
To clarify, what I linked is his personal rantings of how he really felt about “all men created equal”. The issue of Black slaves in America was so volatile that the country ended up in civil war over it. During his lifetime Massachusetts was the first state to ban slavery, inspired by his “all men are equal” speech. On the other end Southern states changed their constitutions to read “all freemen” instead of “all men”.

What speech are you talking about when you say it’s about White slavery?
Deleted User 1990

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Lemons wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:55 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:36 pm
Lemons wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:06 pm

This is just embarrassing. No comments after reading a statement that claims Jefferson wasn’t referring to “slavery of the Africans” ?
He wasn’t…


He was referring to the slavery of who he considered his own people, who he considered full fledged Americans, and was basing his ideas on how to avoid slavery on the many different ways he saw it accomplished in his time…


He was racist, and owned slaves…that doesn’t mean he had bad ideas when it came to not becoming a slave himself.
To clarify, what I linked is his personal rantings of how he really felt about “all men created equal”. The issue of Black slaves in America was so volatile that the country ended up in civil war over it. During his lifetime Massachusetts was the first state to ban slavery, inspired by his “all men are equal” speech. On the other end Southern states changed their constitutions to read “all freemen” instead of “all men”.

What speech are you talking about when you say it’s about White slavery?
He was talking about his White friends, not everyone. Massachusetts had a lot more to say about it than hearing a speech they liked…



https://news.stanford.edu/press-release ... nged-time/

On July 4, 1776, when the Continental Congress adopted the historic text drafted by Thomas Jefferson, they did not intend it to mean individual equality. Rather, what they declared was that American colonists, as a people, had the same rights to self-government as other nations. Because they possessed this fundamental right, Rakove said, they could establish new governments within each of the states and collectively assume their “separate and equal station” with other nations. It was only in the decades after the American Revolutionary War that the phrase acquired its compelling reputation as a statement of individual equality.
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Lemons wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:06 pm
Valentina327 wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:32 am
Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:32 pm

These didn’t age very well.

1. Free people who are armed and disciplined is a difficult thing to accomplish.

2. Not true. Free men need to be debarred the use of guns all the time.

3. I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

This is just gross. An abolitionist named Moncure Conway, noting Jefferson’s enduring reputation as a would-be emancipator, remarked scornfully, “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.” He had no intention of freeing his slaves and continued his child abuse, child labor and slavery.

In the 1790’s when Jefferson was going over his profit and loss statements he realized he was making a 4 percent profit every year when another Black child was born. A win/win for Jefferson. Jefferson sees slavery as an investment strategy for his future.

“ He writes that an acquaintance who had suffered financial reverses “should have been invested in negroes.” He advises that if the friend’s family had any cash left, “every farthing of it [should be] laid out in land and negroes, which besides a present support bring a silent profit of from 5. to 10. per cent in this country by the increase in their value.””

When Jefferson died in 1826, 39 years after he claimed slavery should be abolished, his slaves were auctioned off. Children were separated from their parents. Wives from husbands. Jefferson knew this would happen. He was an evil man and the excuse of “those were the times” doesn’t fit.

It’s a good read from the Smithsonian.


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -35976004/
Slavery of the Africans is not what he's referring to. It seems you're being intentionally obtuse.

Jefferson's mention of slavery was with respect to citizens not being a slave to their government. That's what they escaped by coming here - tyranny. It's what they sacrificed lives and money and homes for. It's what 2A is about. We need to keep our government in check in order to insure that they recall that THEY work for US.
This is just embarrassing. No comments after reading a statement that claims Jefferson wasn’t referring to “slavery of the Africans” ?
I'm sorry you're embarrassed. Don't be.
Let's Go Brandon!
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