Debunking the myth that anti-Zionism is antisemitic

[Momto2boys973]

You’re right. “Palestinians” as a distinct Arab group were actually invented by Yasser Arafat in the 1960s. There actually has never been an independent country called “palestine”. At the time of Israel’s re-creation, it was called the British Mandate of Palestine. Palestine being the name given to Judea (where the word “Jew” comes from) by Roman conquerors. Palestine can’t be an Arab given name, there’s no “P” in Arabic. Arabs actually didn’t settle in the region until about the 7th century CE and they certainly didn’t originate in the region, they’re not indigenous to the Levant, like Jews are. They’re indigenous to Arabia and the first mentions of “Arabs” appear in the 9th century and the region was at the time the Kingdom of Israel.
Palestinians are actually Jordanian refugees from the West Bank that became refugees after Israel won the 1967 war and acquired those territories. Jordan initially allowed some now renamed palestinians into Jordan, but as they cause the civil war of Black September, they were expelled.
As for “it wasn’t an empty land”, well no. But the land was ruled by someone and that someone weren’t the residents of the land. At the time the rulers were the British and the British gave that land to the U.N to form a partition to create 2 independent countries: a Jewish state and an Arab state. Jews said yes, Arab said n and declared war and tough for them, the newly formed Jewish state won and Israel’s independence was declared. No, the Jews didn’t “steal” land. Actually, many Arabs chose to stay in what was to become Israel and became the first Arab citizens of Israel. 150,000 approximately, now about 2 million Arab citizens (I guess we suck at genocide ). Others chose to leave, trusting their big Arab brothers would soon get rid of the Jews and then they could go back. Didn’t quite turned out that way, tough.
Nothing illegal, or twisted or insidious about how Israel finally came to exist again. It’s a story of successful decolonization. And I’m sorry, but the biggest colonizers in history? Arabs. Half the countries in the Arab League have no business being Arab. Arabs arrived at lands that not only weren’t empty, but they actually belong to another group f people, they violently conquered and converted and colonized them in the name of Islamic imperialism. But OMG, Jews going back to their indigenous land, which was given by the rulers of the time is oh-so evil!!

Wells added a link to the article that isn’t behind a paywall. I’m not a fan of Wikipedia as it can be user edited but with Yehoshua his quotes are very contextual. Up until a few years before his death, he supported a 2 state solution. He never denied Palestinians their identity but was always looking at viable peaceful solutions of equality. Towards his death, he no longer thought this was possible with a 2 state solution, not because of fear, hatred, or distrust but because he didn’t see it as being viable for equality and peace.

"Here is the definition: A Zionist is a person who desires or supports the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, which in the future will become the state of the Jewish people. This is based on what Herzl said: “In Basel I founded the Jewish state.”

The key word in this definition is “state,” and its natural location is the Land of Israel because of the Jewish people’s historical link to it."

The bolded sections. That's the entire issue with Zionism. That wasn't a land sitting empty and waiting for their return. They're almost 2000 years removed. What gave anyone the right to just move the other people who had been living there since biblical times?

Do you think Jews left for almost 2000 yrs and the Palestinians have been there since biblical times? That’s how your reply reads, the first is inaccurate and the second is complicated. There were population fluctuations. Despite expulsion, massacre, and slavery the population was never zero. There were Jews in what is present day Israel during the Byzantine Empire, The Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Mamaluk, the Ottoman Empire, etc. “Palestinians” or more accurately people who identify as Palestinian today didn’t exist as Palestinian before the Palestinian movement, which began by Arabs in Mandatory Palestine to counter Zionism. Prior to this Palestinian was a term used for all people in Mandatory Palestine: Jews, Christian, Muslim, Arabs, as a way to strip identity and considered insulting. A couple years ago there was a change.org petition wanting 23 and me to add Palestinian to the ancestry profile, but like Israel, the genetics is too much of a hodgepodge that cluster groups to identify as Palestinian or Israeli is not possible. Same is true for Americans unless they are indigenous Americans. Levantine Corridor has a complicated history and people on various sides use that complicated history over simplify it and propagandize it.

[Slimshandy]

That’s not true of Americans anymore, my ancestry test shows exactly which state and area my ancestors are from, going back to the mid-1800’s

Wells added a link to the article that isn’t behind a paywall. I’m not a fan of Wikipedia as it can be user edited but with Yehoshua his quotes are very contextual. Up until a few years before his death, he supported a 2 state solution. He never denied Palestinians their identity but was always looking at viable peaceful solutions of equality. Towards his death, he no longer thought this was possible with a 2 state solution, not because of fear, hatred, or distrust but because he didn’t see it as being viable for equality and peace.

"Here is the definition: A Zionist is a person who desires or supports the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, which in the future will become the state of the Jewish people. This is based on what Herzl said: “In Basel I founded the Jewish state.”

The key word in this definition is “state,” and its natural location is the Land of Israel because of the Jewish people’s historical link to it."

The bolded sections. That's the entire issue with Zionism. That wasn't a land sitting empty and waiting for their return. They're almost 2000 years removed. What gave anyone the right to just move the other people who had been living there since biblical times?

Do you think Jews left for almost 2000 yrs and the Palestinians have been there since biblical times? That’s how your reply reads, the first is inaccurate and the second is complicated. There were population fluctuations. Despite expulsion, massacre, and slavery the population was never zero. There were Jews in what is present day Israel during the Byzantine Empire, The Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Mamaluk, the Ottoman Empire, etc. “Palestinians” or more accurately people who identify as Palestinian today didn’t exist as Palestinian before the Palestinian movement, which began by Arabs in Mandatory Palestine to counter Zionism. Prior to this Palestinian was a term used for all people in Mandatory Palestine: Jews, Christian, Muslim, Arabs, as a way to strip identity and considered insulting. A couple years ago there was a change.org petition wanting 23 and me to add Palestinian to the ancestry profile, but like Israel, the genetics is too much of a hodgepodge that cluster groups to identify as Palestinian or Israeli is not possible. Same is true for Americans unless they are indigenous Americans. Levantine Corridor has a complicated history and people on various sides use that complicated history over simplify it and propagandize it.

[Quorra2.0]

That’s very unusual. Just from DNA? 23 and me only shows possible relatives if the users opt in, but isn’t going to show that it goes back to like the 1800’s. Ancestry on the other hand doesn’t use just DNA but records like census records, to generate a genealogy.

That’s not true of Americans anymore, my ancestry test shows exactly which state and area my ancestors are from, going back to the mid-1800’s

"Here is the definition: A Zionist is a person who desires or supports the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, which in the future will become the state of the Jewish people. This is based on what Herzl said: “In Basel I founded the Jewish state.”

The key word in this definition is “state,” and its natural location is the Land of Israel because of the Jewish people’s historical link to it."

The bolded sections. That's the entire issue with Zionism. That wasn't a land sitting empty and waiting for their return. They're almost 2000 years removed. What gave anyone the right to just move the other people who had been living there since biblical times?

Do you think Jews left for almost 2000 yrs and the Palestinians have been there since biblical times? That’s how your reply reads, the first is inaccurate and the second is complicated. There were population fluctuations. Despite expulsion, massacre, and slavery the population was never zero. There were Jews in what is present day Israel during the Byzantine Empire, The Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Mamaluk, the Ottoman Empire, etc. “Palestinians” or more accurately people who identify as Palestinian today didn’t exist as Palestinian before the Palestinian movement, which began by Arabs in Mandatory Palestine to counter Zionism. Prior to this Palestinian was a term used for all people in Mandatory Palestine: Jews, Christian, Muslim, Arabs, as a way to strip identity and considered insulting. A couple years ago there was a change.org petition wanting 23 and me to add Palestinian to the ancestry profile, but like Israel, the genetics is too much of a hodgepodge that cluster groups to identify as Palestinian or Israeli is not possible. Same is true for Americans unless they are indigenous Americans. Levantine Corridor has a complicated history and people on various sides use that complicated history over simplify it and propagandize it.

[Slimshandy]

Yeah, it’s says things like “your dna shows ancestors from Walker county settlers in Alabama, 1775…

That’s very unusual. Just from DNA? 23 and me only shows possible relatives if the users opt in, but isn’t going to show that it goes back to like the 1800’s. Ancestry on the other hand doesn’t use just DNA but records like census records, to generate a genealogy.

That’s not true of Americans anymore, my ancestry test shows exactly which state and area my ancestors are from, going back to the mid-1800’s

Do you think Jews left for almost 2000 yrs and the Palestinians have been there since biblical times? That’s how your reply reads, the first is inaccurate and the second is complicated. There were population fluctuations. Despite expulsion, massacre, and slavery the population was never zero. There were Jews in what is present day Israel during the Byzantine Empire, The Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Mamaluk, the Ottoman Empire, etc. “Palestinians” or more accurately people who identify as Palestinian today didn’t exist as Palestinian before the Palestinian movement, which began by Arabs in Mandatory Palestine to counter Zionism. Prior to this Palestinian was a term used for all people in Mandatory Palestine: Jews, Christian, Muslim, Arabs, as a way to strip identity and considered insulting. A couple years ago there was a change.org petition wanting 23 and me to add Palestinian to the ancestry profile, but like Israel, the genetics is too much of a hodgepodge that cluster groups to identify as Palestinian or Israeli is not possible. Same is true for Americans unless they are indigenous Americans. Levantine Corridor has a complicated history and people on various sides use that complicated history over simplify it and propagandize it.

[Quorra2.0]

That reads as though they are matching you to other users and records, unless there was a genetic anomaly found that only occurred in Walker county starting in 1775, which would be interesting but I haven’t read anything published about it.

Yeah, it’s says things like “your dna shows ancestors from Walker county settlers in Alabama, 1775…

That’s very unusual. Just from DNA? 23 and me only shows possible relatives if the users opt in, but isn’t going to show that it goes back to like the 1800’s. Ancestry on the other hand doesn’t use just DNA but records like census records, to generate a genealogy.

That’s not true of Americans anymore, my ancestry test shows exactly which state and area my ancestors are from, going back to the mid-1800’s

[Quorra2.0]

Palaestina was derived from Philistia. Philistines were from the Aegean Civilization not Canaanites. Arabs in Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and parts of Syria, Iran, and Iraq, as well as Jews all share strong common genetic ancestry to the Canaanite.

Mandatory Palestine wasn’t under British rule. It was a Mandate territory under the League of Nations who “assigned” Britain as the administrators. There were limits to the administration. When the League of Nations dissolved, all mandate territories were turned over to the UN. Under that partition plan it included that Jerusalem wouldn’t be part of either Israel or Palestine but become a UN trust territory. It really doesn’t matter who said yes and who said no, the UN had already decided. However, the greatest objection was to the 56% to 42% division. Britain didn’t hand it over to the UN to decide, Britain had failed as administrators.

As far as biggest colonizers in history I don’t think they make the top 10.

You’re right. “Palestinians” as a distinct Arab group were actually invented by Yasser Arafat in the 1960s. There actually has never been an independent country called “palestine”. At the time of Israel’s re-creation, it was called the British Mandate of Palestine. Palestine being the name given to Judea (where the word “Jew” comes from) by Roman conquerors. Palestine can’t be an Arab given name, there’s no “P” in Arabic. Arabs actually didn’t settle in the region until about the 7th century CE and they certainly didn’t originate in the region, they’re not indigenous to the Levant, like Jews are. They’re indigenous to Arabia and the first mentions of “Arabs” appear in the 9th century and the region was at the time the Kingdom of Israel.
Palestinians are actually Jordanian refugees from the West Bank that became refugees after Israel won the 1967 war and acquired those territories. Jordan initially allowed some now renamed palestinians into Jordan, but as they cause the civil war of Black September, they were expelled.
As for “it wasn’t an empty land”, well no. But the land was ruled by someone and that someone weren’t the residents of the land. At the time the rulers were the British and the British gave that land to the U.N to form a partition to create 2 independent countries: a Jewish state and an Arab state. Jews said yes, Arab said n and declared war and tough for them, the newly formed Jewish state won and Israel’s independence was declared. No, the Jews didn’t “steal” land. Actually, many Arabs chose to stay in what was to become Israel and became the first Arab citizens of Israel. 150,000 approximately, now about 2 million Arab citizens (I guess we suck at genocide ). Others chose to leave, trusting their big Arab brothers would soon get rid of the Jews and then they could go back. Didn’t quite turned out that way, tough.
Nothing illegal, or twisted or insidious about how Israel finally came to exist again. It’s a story of successful decolonization. And I’m sorry, but the biggest colonizers in history? Arabs. Half the countries in the Arab League have no business being Arab. Arabs arrived at lands that not only weren’t empty, but they actually belong to another group f people, they violently conquered and converted and colonized them in the name of Islamic imperialism. But OMG, Jews going back to their indigenous land, which was given by the rulers of the time is oh-so evil!!

"Here is the definition: A Zionist is a person who desires or supports the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, which in the future will become the state of the Jewish people. This is based on what Herzl said: “In Basel I founded the Jewish state.”

The key word in this definition is “state,” and its natural location is the Land of Israel because of the Jewish people’s historical link to it."

The bolded sections. That's the entire issue with Zionism. That wasn't a land sitting empty and waiting for their return. They're almost 2000 years removed. What gave anyone the right to just move the other people who had been living there since biblical times?

Do you think Jews left for almost 2000 yrs and the Palestinians have been there since biblical times? That’s how your reply reads, the first is inaccurate and the second is complicated. There were population fluctuations. Despite expulsion, massacre, and slavery the population was never zero. There were Jews in what is present day Israel during the Byzantine Empire, The Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Mamaluk, the Ottoman Empire, etc. “Palestinians” or more accurately people who identify as Palestinian today didn’t exist as Palestinian before the Palestinian movement, which began by Arabs in Mandatory Palestine to counter Zionism. Prior to this Palestinian was a term used for all people in Mandatory Palestine: Jews, Christian, Muslim, Arabs, as a way to strip identity and considered insulting. A couple years ago there was a change.org petition wanting 23 and me to add Palestinian to the ancestry profile, but like Israel, the genetics is too much of a hodgepodge that cluster groups to identify as Palestinian or Israeli is not possible. Same is true for Americans unless they are indigenous Americans. Levantine Corridor has a complicated history and people on various sides use that complicated history over simplify it and propagandize it.

[Momto2boys973]

It does matter who said yes and who said no to determine what are the facts. Who would obviously begin hostilities? The ones who said yes? Obviously not. They were happy with their land and couldn’t wait to settle there and turn it into a prosperous country.
The ones who said no, however, were the bitter part that refused to form their own country and therefore focused on destroying the other one, not on building their own.

And over 5 million sq miles in territory? A population of nearly 500 million worldwide. Countries colonized by the Arabs: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordon, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, and the United Arab Emirates.
I’d say they’re quite the colonizers… and they’re now coming from the west.
Israel with an area of nearly 22,000 sq. ft. And a population of 9.5 million people… not so much

Palaestina was derived from Philistia. Philistines were from the Aegean Civilization not Canaanites. Arabs in Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and parts of Syria, Iran, and Iraq, as well as Jews all share strong common genetic ancestry to the Canaanite.

Mandatory Palestine wasn’t under British rule. It was a Mandate territory under the League of Nations who “assigned” Britain as the administrators. There were limits to the administration. When the League of Nations dissolved, all mandate territories were turned over to the UN. Under that partition plan it included that Jerusalem wouldn’t be part of either Israel or Palestine but become a UN trust territory. It really doesn’t matter who said yes and who said no, the UN had already decided. However, the greatest objection was to the 56% to 42% division. Britain didn’t hand it over to the UN to decide, Britain had failed as administrators.

As far as biggest colonizers in history I don’t think they make the top 10.

You’re right. “Palestinians” as a distinct Arab group were actually invented by Yasser Arafat in the 1960s. There actually has never been an independent country called “palestine”. At the time of Israel’s re-creation, it was called the British Mandate of Palestine. Palestine being the name given to Judea (where the word “Jew” comes from) by Roman conquerors. Palestine can’t be an Arab given name, there’s no “P” in Arabic. Arabs actually didn’t settle in the region until about the 7th century CE and they certainly didn’t originate in the region, they’re not indigenous to the Levant, like Jews are. They’re indigenous to Arabia and the first mentions of “Arabs” appear in the 9th century and the region was at the time the Kingdom of Israel.
Palestinians are actually Jordanian refugees from the West Bank that became refugees after Israel won the 1967 war and acquired those territories. Jordan initially allowed some now renamed palestinians into Jordan, but as they cause the civil war of Black September, they were expelled.
As for “it wasn’t an empty land”, well no. But the land was ruled by someone and that someone weren’t the residents of the land. At the time the rulers were the British and the British gave that land to the U.N to form a partition to create 2 independent countries: a Jewish state and an Arab state. Jews said yes, Arab said n and declared war and tough for them, the newly formed Jewish state won and Israel’s independence was declared. No, the Jews didn’t “steal” land. Actually, many Arabs chose to stay in what was to become Israel and became the first Arab citizens of Israel. 150,000 approximately, now about 2 million Arab citizens (I guess we suck at genocide ). Others chose to leave, trusting their big Arab brothers would soon get rid of the Jews and then they could go back. Didn’t quite turned out that way, tough.
Nothing illegal, or twisted or insidious about how Israel finally came to exist again. It’s a story of successful decolonization. And I’m sorry, but the biggest colonizers in history? Arabs. Half the countries in the Arab League have no business being Arab. Arabs arrived at lands that not only weren’t empty, but they actually belong to another group f people, they violently conquered and converted and colonized them in the name of Islamic imperialism. But OMG, Jews going back to their indigenous land, which was given by the rulers of the time is oh-so evil!!

Do you think Jews left for almost 2000 yrs and the Palestinians have been there since biblical times? That’s how your reply reads, the first is inaccurate and the second is complicated. There were population fluctuations. Despite expulsion, massacre, and slavery the population was never zero. There were Jews in what is present day Israel during the Byzantine Empire, The Kingdom of Jerusalem, the Mamaluk, the Ottoman Empire, etc. “Palestinians” or more accurately people who identify as Palestinian today didn’t exist as Palestinian before the Palestinian movement, which began by Arabs in Mandatory Palestine to counter Zionism. Prior to this Palestinian was a term used for all people in Mandatory Palestine: Jews, Christian, Muslim, Arabs, as a way to strip identity and considered insulting. A couple years ago there was a change.org petition wanting 23 and me to add Palestinian to the ancestry profile, but like Israel, the genetics is too much of a hodgepodge that cluster groups to identify as Palestinian or Israeli is not possible. Same is true for Americans unless they are indigenous Americans. Levantine Corridor has a complicated history and people on various sides use that complicated history over simplify it and propagandize it.

[WellPreserved]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lBu ... fFUoXQRMQ/

Statement from Concerned Jewish Faculty Against Antisemitism

Criticism of the state of Israel, the Israeli government, policies of the Israeli government, or Zionist ideology is not – in and of itself – antisemitic.
We accordingly urge our political leaders to reject any effort to codify into federal law a definition of antisemitism that conflates antisemitism with criticism of the state of Israel. This includes ongoing efforts to codify the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s (IHRA) working definition of antisemitism, which has been internationally criticized for conflating antisemitism with legitimate criticism of Israel.”