Page 2 of 3
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:14 pm
by Pjmm
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:34 pm
Learn about it, by all means. And feel free to disagree with whatever choices they make. But don’t presume as an employee that you have a saying in that choice. You don’t like it? Quit. But how entitled do you have to be to tell the company to abandon a 2.1 billion deal because you have moral objections?
Just as a consumer. If you object to those companies’ actions, then stop giving them your money. Somehow I’m thinking all those who are so outraged won’t do that, though
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:57 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:17 pm
If they don’t want to work there, then they should quit. They don’t get to dictate what a company chooses to do. I wouldn’t work for a company if I disagreed with their practices. I’m not self centered and egotistical enough to tell them not to do it because I don’t like it. What entitlement.
The way I see it if a company can fire me for what I say on my private social media account (telling me what to do) I'm perfectly free to tell them what to do. They don't like it, they can fire me and I'll go collect unemployment. Same if a company doesn't want me moonlighting, or complains about the moonlighting I do. For example, some schools don't like teachers bartending. And we should all learn about what Google and Amazon might be doing. Google has been accused of being a monopoly and Amazon isn't far behind. We all should be concerned with their practices. I'm also concerned with what Netanyahu and the rest of the middle East are doing.
Workers have protested companies since the industrial revolution. This is nothing new. It's why we have the FDA, the forty hour work week, and child labor laws. All from protests of one kind or another. As far as boycotting, I can stop giving money to Amazon. In fact I didn't renew my prime this year. I'm making it a point to buy from other companies. But given that Google is as I said, a monopoly, not using them is difficult. They've been accused of pushing other search engines out. They're in android phones and I'm not certain those apps can be removed. I can remove them from my iPhone but that leaves plenty of people without a choice. Plus, I'd have to delete my gmail, download all my documents and pictures as well as update God knows how many contacts and clients I do business with. Now yes I can do this. I also don't pay them although I'm sure they use my data for anything they like. That's a whole other issue. Anyway, Google is so much a part of our lives I think both workers and citizens have the right to ask what their practices are. It's fine if they have military contracts and develop AI for war. But I hoped AI would be to prevent soldiers from going into war, not to be used against civilians regardless of what side they're on. Now the demonstrators have admitted they don't know if Nimbus or whatever it is has been used against civilians. I think they should figure that out before they protest further. But I can't fault them for being concerned.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:50 pm
by WellPreserved
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:14 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:34 pm
Learn about it, by all means. And feel free to disagree with whatever choices they make. But don’t presume as an employee that you have a saying in that choice. You don’t like it? Quit. But how entitled do you have to be to tell the company to abandon a 2.1 billion deal because you have moral objections?
Just as a consumer. If you object to those companies’ actions, then stop giving them your money. Somehow I’m thinking all those who are so outraged won’t do that, though
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:57 pm
The way I see it if a company can fire me for what I say on my private social media account (telling me what to do) I'm perfectly free to tell them what to do. They don't like it, they can fire me and I'll go collect unemployment. Same if a company doesn't want me moonlighting, or complains about the moonlighting I do. For example, some schools don't like teachers bartending. And we should all learn about what Google and Amazon might be doing. Google has been accused of being a monopoly and Amazon isn't far behind. We all should be concerned with their practices. I'm also concerned with what Netanyahu and the rest of the middle East are doing.
Workers have protested companies since the industrial revolution. This is nothing new. It's why we have the FDA, the forty hour work week, and child labor laws. All from protests of one kind or another. As far as boycotting, I can stop giving money to Amazon. In fact I didn't renew my prime this year. I'm making it a point to buy from other companies. But given that Google is as I said, a monopoly, not using them is difficult. They've been accused of pushing other search engines out. They're in android phones and I'm not certain those apps can be removed. I can remove them from my iPhone but that leaves plenty of people without a choice. Plus, I'd have to delete my gmail, download all my documents and pictures as well as update God knows how many contacts and clients I do business with. Now yes I can do this. I also don't pay them although I'm sure they use my data for anything they like. That's a whole other issue. Anyway, Google is so much a part of our lives I think both workers and citizens have the right to ask what their practices are. It's fine if they have military contracts and develop AI for war. But I hoped AI would be to prevent soldiers from going into war, not to be used against civilians regardless of what side they're on. Now the demonstrators have admitted they don't know if Nimbus or whatever it is has been used against civilians. I think they should figure that out before they protest further. But I can't fault them for being concerned.
And this protest itself is not new:
First announced in 2021, Project Nimbus has been the source of sustained internal protests at Google and Amazon. That year, a coalition of tech workers at both companies under a campaign called No Tech for Apartheid called on their employers to end the contract. Opposition to Project Nimbus has been reignited since the onset of Israel’s war on Gaza. In March, Google fired Eddie Hatfield, a software engineer who publicly protested Project Nimbus during an executive’s presentation at Mind the Tech, an annual Israeli tech conference in New York.
“I’m a Google Cloud software engineer, and I refuse to build technology that powers genocide, apartheid, or surveillance. Project Nimbus puts Palestinian community members in danger,” Hatfield said at the conference. Vidana Abdel Khalek, a United Kingdom-based policy lead at Google, resigned in protest after Hatfield was fired, according to TIME.
More than 600 Google workers signed an open letter asking leadership to drop its sponsorship of Mind the Tech.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo ... r-BB1lNh2t
Also, I don't think any of the protestors believe that they'll change Google or Amazon's mind. They have been or will be fired. The protest was more of a "I quit and this is why" statement.
I hear you about dropping Amazon and Google. I've tried to drop Amazon but living in a rural area where it's a 45 minute drive to most shopping, it tough! Google it's next to impossible.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:55 pm
by Momto2boys973
Those protests you mentioned are protests to improve working condition. That’s different than “protesting” because you don’t like a deal the company made, which doesn’t affect you in the slightest. So just quit.
They were arrested, BTW
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/google ... ffice.html
There’s probably going to be some vacancies to work in Google
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:14 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:34 pm
Learn about it, by all means. And feel free to disagree with whatever choices they make. But don’t presume as an employee that you have a saying in that choice. You don’t like it? Quit. But how entitled do you have to be to tell the company to abandon a 2.1 billion deal because you have moral objections?
Just as a consumer. If you object to those companies’ actions, then stop giving them your money. Somehow I’m thinking all those who are so outraged won’t do that, though
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:57 pm
The way I see it if a company can fire me for what I say on my private social media account (telling me what to do) I'm perfectly free to tell them what to do. They don't like it, they can fire me and I'll go collect unemployment. Same if a company doesn't want me moonlighting, or complains about the moonlighting I do. For example, some schools don't like teachers bartending. And we should all learn about what Google and Amazon might be doing. Google has been accused of being a monopoly and Amazon isn't far behind. We all should be concerned with their practices. I'm also concerned with what Netanyahu and the rest of the middle East are doing.
Workers have protested companies since the industrial revolution. This is nothing new. It's why we have the FDA, the forty hour work week, and child labor laws. All from protests of one kind or another. As far as boycotting, I can stop giving money to Amazon. In fact I didn't renew my prime this year. I'm making it a point to buy from other companies. But given that Google is as I said, a monopoly, not using them is difficult. They've been accused of pushing other search engines out. They're in android phones and I'm not certain those apps can be removed. I can remove them from my iPhone but that leaves plenty of people without a choice. Plus, I'd have to delete my gmail, download all my documents and pictures as well as update God knows how many contacts and clients I do business with. Now yes I can do this. I also don't pay them although I'm sure they use my data for anything they like. That's a whole other issue. Anyway, Google is so much a part of our lives I think both workers and citizens have the right to ask what their practices are. It's fine if they have military contracts and develop AI for war. But I hoped AI would be to prevent soldiers from going into war, not to be used against civilians regardless of what side they're on. Now the demonstrators have admitted they don't know if Nimbus or whatever it is has been used against civilians. I think they should figure that out before they protest further. But I can't fault them for being concerned.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:09 pm
by Pjmm
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:55 pm
Those protests you mentioned are protests to improve working condition. That’s different than “protesting” because you don’t like a deal the company made, which doesn’t affect you in the slightest. So just quit.
They were arrested, BTW
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/google ... ffice.html
There’s probably going to be some vacancies to work in Google
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:14 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:34 pm
Learn about it, by all means. And feel free to disagree with whatever choices they make. But don’t presume as an employee that you have a saying in that choice. You don’t like it? Quit. But how entitled do you have to be to tell the company to abandon a 2.1 billion deal because you have moral objections?
Just as a consumer. If you object to those companies’ actions, then stop giving them your money. Somehow I’m thinking all those who are so outraged won’t do that, though
Workers have protested companies since the industrial revolution. This is nothing new. It's why we have the FDA, the forty hour work week, and child labor laws. All from protests of one kind or another. As far as boycotting, I can stop giving money to Amazon. In fact I didn't renew my prime this year. I'm making it a point to buy from other companies. But given that Google is as I said, a monopoly, not using them is difficult. They've been accused of pushing other search engines out. They're in android phones and I'm not certain those apps can be removed. I can remove them from my iPhone but that leaves plenty of people without a choice. Plus, I'd have to delete my gmail, download all my documents and pictures as well as update God knows how many contacts and clients I do business with. Now yes I can do this. I also don't pay them although I'm sure they use my data for anything they like. That's a whole other issue. Anyway, Google is so much a part of our lives I think both workers and citizens have the right to ask what their practices are. It's fine if they have military contracts and develop AI for war. But I hoped AI would be to prevent soldiers from going into war, not to be used against civilians regardless of what side they're on. Now the demonstrators have admitted they don't know if Nimbus or whatever it is has been used against civilians. I think they should figure that out before they protest further. But I can't fault them for being concerned.
I'm sure these workers went in knowing that might be the outcome.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:23 am
by Quorra2.0
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:56 pm
This one I agree with…
Look up the Lavender program… they’re having AI decide which sites get bombed without humans pushing the button…
Like no one saw The terminator…
I don’t think AI should have a prominent place, if any, in military operations. Not even because of movies like The Terminator, but because you are removing humanity where humanity is greatly needed.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:17 am
by Momto2boys973
https://www.the-sun.com/news/11109914/ ... an-drones/
“A.I IN THE SKY How secret £800m Israeli spy plane used cutting edge AI tech to foil Iran’s drone and missile blitz
The Oron is also known as Mars 2 and has been turned into the world’s most sophisticated stealth plane”
99% of projectiles intercepted.
Quorra2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:23 am
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:56 pm
This one I agree with…
Look up the Lavender program… they’re having AI decide which sites get bombed without humans pushing the button…
Like no one saw The terminator…
I don’t think AI should have a prominent place, if any, in military operations. Not even because of movies like The Terminator, but because you are removing humanity where humanity is greatly needed.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:42 am
by Della
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:17 am
https://www.the-sun.com/news/11109914/ ... an-drones/
“A.I IN THE SKY How secret £800m Israeli spy plane used cutting edge AI tech to foil Iran’s drone and missile blitz
The Oron is also known as Mars 2 and has been turned into the world’s most sophisticated stealth plane”
99% of projectiles intercepted.
Quorra2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:23 am
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:56 pm
This one I agree with…
Look up the Lavender program… they’re having AI decide which sites get bombed without humans pushing the button…
Like no one saw The terminator…
I don’t think AI should have a prominent place, if any, in military operations. Not even because of movies like The Terminator, but because you are removing humanity where humanity is greatly needed.
Israel didn't do it without backup. How many were shot down by America, Jordan, France and the UK?
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:43 am
by Della
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:09 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:55 pm
Those protests you mentioned are protests to improve working condition. That’s different than “protesting” because you don’t like a deal the company made, which doesn’t affect you in the slightest. So just quit.
They were arrested, BTW
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/google ... ffice.html
There’s probably going to be some vacancies to work in Google
Pjmm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:14 pm
Workers have protested companies since the industrial revolution. This is nothing new. It's why we have the FDA, the forty hour work week, and child labor laws. All from protests of one kind or another. As far as boycotting, I can stop giving money to Amazon. In fact I didn't renew my prime this year. I'm making it a point to buy from other companies. But given that Google is as I said, a monopoly, not using them is difficult. They've been accused of pushing other search engines out. They're in android phones and I'm not certain those apps can be removed. I can remove them from my iPhone but that leaves plenty of people without a choice. Plus, I'd have to delete my gmail, download all my documents and pictures as well as update God knows how many contacts and clients I do business with. Now yes I can do this. I also don't pay them although I'm sure they use my data for anything they like. That's a whole other issue. Anyway, Google is so much a part of our lives I think both workers and citizens have the right to ask what their practices are. It's fine if they have military contracts and develop AI for war. But I hoped AI would be to prevent soldiers from going into war, not to be used against civilians regardless of what side they're on. Now the demonstrators have admitted they don't know if Nimbus or whatever it is has been used against civilians. I think they should figure that out before they protest further. But I can't fault them for being concerned.
I'm sure these workers went in knowing that might be the outcome.
I'm thinking some sound just like the folks did during civil rights marches and sit-ins.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:28 am
by WellPreserved
Quorra2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:23 am
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:56 pm
This one I agree with…
Look up the Lavender program… they’re having AI decide which sites get bombed without humans pushing the button…
Like no one saw The terminator…
I don’t think AI should have a prominent place, if any, in military operations. Not even because of movies like The Terminator, but because you are removing humanity where humanity is greatly needed.
AI being used in the Israeli program nick named "Where's Daddy" is pretty horrific but as posted, it can also be legitimately used in defense. I think AI needs its own category in rules of engagement and for goodness sake, prosecute and punish war crimes because without consequences there is no incentive to stop or another country to engage in the same.
I'm not sure but I would think "Lavender" is a war crime and if so, the US would have the legal imperative to tell Google to stop supplying tech to Israel. No protest needed.
Re: Googlers against genocide' lead sit-ins, protests coast-to-coast at tech giant's offices
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:15 am
by Quorra2.0
Momto2boys973 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:17 am
https://www.the-sun.com/news/11109914/ ... an-drones/
“A.I IN THE SKY How secret £800m Israeli spy plane used cutting edge AI tech to foil Iran’s drone and missile blitz
The Oron is also known as Mars 2 and has been turned into the world’s most sophisticated stealth plane”
99% of projectiles intercepted.
Quorra2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:23 am
Slimshandy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:56 pm
This one I agree with…
Look up the Lavender program… they’re having AI decide which sites get bombed without humans pushing the button…
Like no one saw The terminator…
I don’t think AI should have a prominent place, if any, in military operations. Not even because of movies like The Terminator, but because you are removing humanity where humanity is greatly needed.
Oron hasn’t been a “secret” since like 2021, or was it 2020, when Israel announced its plan to use the Gulfstream G550 outfitted with AI technology for surveillance and reconnaissance. They were also looking into the possibility of outfitting the G550 for in air refueling. Israel again announced last year before the Hamas attack that Oron was delivered and they were starting testing, it’s been active since October. It has been in use through a large majority of air and ground strikes. They’ve also been using M-RCVs which they announced in 2022, went into testing early 2023. With the number of civilian casualties, including aid workers, one can only wonder if it would be so high if AI wasn’t playing such a prominent part.
