San Francisco could pay $5 million to each of its Black residents in reparations

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Lemons
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SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:55 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:42 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:13 pm

No, your comment was out of line and so ignorant ..it’s not much to do but shake our heads.

Are you honestly that oblivious to inappropriate that was?
Why would that be inappropriate?

People who had ancestors in states that had slavery were most impacted by slavery...

Obviously not all or even close to half, but some people can trace their ancestry back to certain plantations, my cousin has the exact place her grandmother was held.

There are certain businesses that are proven to have held and profited from slavery that still exist today... Holding them accountable more than innocent people isn't a bad idea.
I’m a slave descendant from a “slave” state. Slavery affects me more than it does Black people in areas outside of the south and it has impacted Black families differently.

That’s just not true and I definitely don’t agree with using oppression Olympics as a determining factor in distributing reparations amongst the Black community based on region.

Lastly, pushing the notion that we (southern Black) had it worse, minimizes the racism and oppression in other areas.

As far as why I feel it is inappropriate, you can follow my Convo with Lemons so I don’t have to repeat the same talking points.
When it comes to money there will be determinations on who had it worse. Exactly what they had to do with distributing money to families of 9/11 victims.

You can think you’re morally correct but that’s how it is when discussing government money.
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Lemons wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:15 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:25 pm
Lemons wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:21 pm

You’ll hate this but the most damage done to Black Americans were Southern states. And they would have the easiest time going back in history not that long ago and see what land was stolen, who and what businesses used slaves and who has great+ grandparents who were slaves. Since the Southern states are currently trying to silence the violence and horrors of slavery in America it’s not going to happen.
I think what was done during the 1960s and 70s to the Black community of Filmore in San Francisco was pretty devastating which is probably why San Francisco feels that reparations to their Black community is appropriate.
True. But why not discuss the easier verifiable damage done by the South. You don’t think Southern states and what they did deserves reputations? Not discussing it is exactly the goal of banning talking about these issues.
I'm not sure who you think is "banning" discussions of reparations in southern states? This OP is specifically about reparations being proposed in San Francisco just like a thread about a year ago discussed reparations being proposed in Tulsa.

I think if you were one of the 60,000 Black individuals who lost their homes and businesses in San Francisco during the 1960s and 70s due to "redevelopment", you would consider that easy to verify.

I personally think that Blacks in US deserve reparations but find it cringy to try to pit one against another as to who suffered more or who is more deserving. Universities offering reparations is opening the subject and valuable to the discussion. Individual cities and towns offering reparations is valuable to the discussion. Arguing who had it worse and which states were the worst offenders kind of shuts down the discussion or at least offers no value.
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:13 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:55 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:42 pm

Why would that be inappropriate?

People who had ancestors in states that had slavery were most impacted by slavery...

Obviously not all or even close to half, but some people can trace their ancestry back to certain plantations, my cousin has the exact place her grandmother was held.

There are certain businesses that are proven to have held and profited from slavery that still exist today... Holding them accountable more than innocent people isn't a bad idea.
I’m a slave descendant from a “slave” state. Slavery affects me more than it does Black people in areas outside of the south and it has impacted Black families differently.

That’s just not true and I definitely don’t agree with using oppression Olympics as a determining factor in distributing reparations amongst the Black community based on region.

Lastly, pushing the notion that we (southern Black) had it worse, minimizes the racism and oppression in other areas.

As far as why I feel it is inappropriate, you can follow my Convo with Lemons so I don’t have to repeat the same talking points.


Exactly though… slavery affects the dependents of those who were in slave states much differently than those from states where slavery didn’t exist.

Of course there are plenty of other people that have had racism impact their lives, but reparations are to help alleviate the damage that slavery did, not the damage from every kind of racism.
Oh shit, that is a typo. LOL!!!! I was cooking, sorry. I meant that slavery DOESN'T affect me more than Black people living outside of the south. Northern slave descendants just had access to certain rights before we did down south, but the impact from slavery is much too generational for me to agree with location.

Thats like me saying a Black family in NY doesn't deserve the same amount of reparations as mine because slavery didn't affect them as much. That doesn't even sound right.





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Lemons wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:27 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:55 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:42 pm

Why would that be inappropriate?

People who had ancestors in states that had slavery were most impacted by slavery...

Obviously not all or even close to half, but some people can trace their ancestry back to certain plantations, my cousin has the exact place her grandmother was held.

There are certain businesses that are proven to have held and profited from slavery that still exist today... Holding them accountable more than innocent people isn't a bad idea.
I’m a slave descendant from a “slave” state. Slavery affects me more than it does Black people in areas outside of the south and it has impacted Black families differently.

That’s just not true and I definitely don’t agree with using oppression Olympics as a determining factor in distributing reparations amongst the Black community based on region.

Lastly, pushing the notion that we (southern Black) had it worse, minimizes the racism and oppression in other areas.

As far as why I feel it is inappropriate, you can follow my Convo with Lemons so I don’t have to repeat the same talking points.
When it comes to money there will be determinations on who had it worse. Exactly what they had to do with distributing money to families of 9/11 victims.

You can think you’re morally correct but that’s how it is when discussing government money.
9/11 and slavery are two completely different things.
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Lemons wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:15 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:25 pm
Lemons wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:21 pm

You’ll hate this but the most damage done to Black Americans were Southern states. And they would have the easiest time going back in history not that long ago and see what land was stolen, who and what businesses used slaves and who has great+ grandparents who were slaves. Since the Southern states are currently trying to silence the violence and horrors of slavery in America it’s not going to happen.
I think what was done during the 1960s and 70s to the Black community of Filmore in San Francisco was pretty devastating which is probably why San Francisco feels that reparations to their Black community is appropriate.
True. But why not discuss the easier verifiable damage done by the South. You don’t think Southern states and what they did deserves reputations? Not discussing it is exactly the goal of banning talking about these issues.
Because it is inappropriate to use slavery and black people to fuel a very long-standing bigoted attitude towards the south and even worse to minimize what Black people have gone through in other areas or change the subject to fit your narrative.

This article is about Black people in San Francisco and you're turning it into the political vendetta you have with the south.

I will never understand why you're always so thirsty to go there.
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Thelma Harper wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:26 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:14 pm
Thelma Harper wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:50 pm

SMH
That’s why I am somewhat hesitant to comment on slave threads sometimes.
I know the feeling. Imo, this is too complex of a subject to try to put it such simplistic terms.

IDK about you but sometimes I think we are the furthest away from finding a solution than we ever have been. Seems like I could have more rational conversation about this back in 1980's and that shit scares me.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 am
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:40 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:30 am

Do you think Black people shouldn't get reparations at all?
I don’t think people who had nothing to do with slavery should have to pay huge sums of money that could bankrupt them -in the spirit of fairness… or any money really.


I think there should be plenty of scholarships available, legal funds available for anyone who was a victim of racism by a company (like the couple who just won for their home valuation), I think there should be a quarter of the military budget taken and given to education so we make every single school in America top notch…there’s plenty of realistic solutions to offer everyone a great life.


But giving anyone who “identifies” as Black 5 million dollars is so unfeasible it’s making me think this is just a ruse anyway…
Well, unfortunately the money has to come from somewhere, so that will likely be taxpayers paying America's debts unless they find a way to different way to do it.

I agree with you on the "identifies" thing for multiple reasons (I just named one). Obsessing over which race people list on paper has always been a pet peeve of mine as far as ignorance.

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion...but this is another reason why we are going to have to find a middle ground when it comes to what people identify with and following science because its adding way too much gray in other areas. In Mississippi, Native American benefits were based off biological percentage if I'm not mistaken. So there shouldn't be a need to care about what race someone puts on a piece of paper and that logic has always been racist/problematic to me.
I understand what you're saying but in this time of on-line forms and filing, it seems logical that some sort of proof of identity/race would be required in the case of reparations like a birth certificate, license, voter registration, or census? In Mississippi, were Native American benefits based on birth certificates or how were biological percentage proven?

I think that the hang-up is with the word "identify" and the referencing of Rachael Dolezal but really, she only "identified" as Black for three years before she was outed by public documentation.

Historically listing one's race on documentation has proven to be dis-adventageous like in the cases of home ownership, agricultural loans, HOAs, business loans, job applications, or even registering kids for school. This is something that anyone who checks the "caucasian" block hasn't had to deal with. Wouldn't it be a little bit of justice to see some advantage rather than only disadvantage to checking that box?
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WellPreserved wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:12 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 am
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:40 am

I don’t think people who had nothing to do with slavery should have to pay huge sums of money that could bankrupt them -in the spirit of fairness… or any money really.


I think there should be plenty of scholarships available, legal funds available for anyone who was a victim of racism by a company (like the couple who just won for their home valuation), I think there should be a quarter of the military budget taken and given to education so we make every single school in America top notch…there’s plenty of realistic solutions to offer everyone a great life.


But giving anyone who “identifies” as Black 5 million dollars is so unfeasible it’s making me think this is just a ruse anyway…
Well, unfortunately the money has to come from somewhere, so that will likely be taxpayers paying America's debts unless they find a way to different way to do it.

I agree with you on the "identifies" thing for multiple reasons (I just named one). Obsessing over which race people list on paper has always been a pet peeve of mine as far as ignorance.

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion...but this is another reason why we are going to have to find a middle ground when it comes to what people identify with and following science because its adding way too much gray in other areas. In Mississippi, Native American benefits were based off biological percentage if I'm not mistaken. So there shouldn't be a need to care about what race someone puts on a piece of paper and that logic has always been racist/problematic to me.
I understand what you're saying but in this time of on-line forms and filing, it seems logical that some sort of proof of identity/race would be required in the case of reparations like a birth certificate, license, voter registration, or census? In Mississippi, were Native American benefits based on birth certificates or how were biological percentage proven?

I think that the hang-up is with the word "identify" and the referencing of Rachael Dolezal but really, she only "identified" as Black for three years before she was outed by public documentation.

Historically listing one's race on documentation has proven to be dis-adventageous like in the cases of home ownership, agricultural loans, HOAs, business loans, job applications, or even registering kids for school. This is something that anyone who checks the "caucasian" block hasn't had to deal with. Wouldn't it be a little bit of justice to see some advantage rather than only disadvantage to checking that box?
I think Bob was referring to is a 10 year history of identifying as Black which can be different than providing proof and that’s kinda how I read it too (correct me if I’m wrong). Birth certificates yes but not documents where people can choose whichever race they want.

It has been a disadvantage but I still wouldn’t agree with setting the precedence that you can just “identify” as Black to quality because of people like Rachel Dolezal.

And of course all of this is hypothetically speaking. I’ll be surprised if I see reparations in my lifetime. Lol
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SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:58 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:13 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:55 pm

I’m a slave descendant from a “slave” state. Slavery affects me more than it does Black people in areas outside of the south and it has impacted Black families differently.

That’s just not true and I definitely don’t agree with using oppression Olympics as a determining factor in distributing reparations amongst the Black community based on region.

Lastly, pushing the notion that we (southern Black) had it worse, minimizes the racism and oppression in other areas.

As far as why I feel it is inappropriate, you can follow my Convo with Lemons so I don’t have to repeat the same talking points.


Exactly though… slavery affects the dependents of those who were in slave states much differently than those from states where slavery didn’t exist.

Of course there are plenty of other people that have had racism impact their lives, but reparations are to help alleviate the damage that slavery did, not the damage from every kind of racism.
Oh shit, that is a typo. LOL!!!! I was cooking, sorry. I meant that slavery DOESN'T affect me more than Black people living outside of the south. Northern slave descendants just had access to certain rights before we did down south, but the impact from slavery is much too generational for me to agree with location.

Thats like me saying a Black family in NY doesn't deserve the same amount of reparations as mine because slavery didn't affect them as much. That doesn't even sound right.


.
Ok, so , just tell me if I'm being ignorant about something here because I'm willing to see that if I am,

But I would completely think that the descended who have ancestral ties to the south would be more impacted.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:35 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:12 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 am

Well, unfortunately the money has to come from somewhere, so that will likely be taxpayers paying America's debts unless they find a way to different way to do it.

I agree with you on the "identifies" thing for multiple reasons (I just named one). Obsessing over which race people list on paper has always been a pet peeve of mine as far as ignorance.

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion...but this is another reason why we are going to have to find a middle ground when it comes to what people identify with and following science because its adding way too much gray in other areas. In Mississippi, Native American benefits were based off biological percentage if I'm not mistaken. So there shouldn't be a need to care about what race someone puts on a piece of paper and that logic has always been racist/problematic to me.
I understand what you're saying but in this time of on-line forms and filing, it seems logical that some sort of proof of identity/race would be required in the case of reparations like a birth certificate, license, voter registration, or census? In Mississippi, were Native American benefits based on birth certificates or how were biological percentage proven?

I think that the hang-up is with the word "identify" and the referencing of Rachael Dolezal but really, she only "identified" as Black for three years before she was outed by public documentation.

Historically listing one's race on documentation has proven to be dis-adventageous like in the cases of home ownership, agricultural loans, HOAs, business loans, job applications, or even registering kids for school. This is something that anyone who checks the "caucasian" block hasn't had to deal with. Wouldn't it be a little bit of justice to see some advantage rather than only disadvantage to checking that box?
I think Bob was referring to is a 10 year history of identifying as Black which can be different than providing proof and that’s kinda how I read it too (correct me if I’m wrong). Birth certificates yes but not documents where people can choose whichever race they want.

It has been a disadvantage but I still wouldn’t agree with setting the precedence that you can just “identify” as Black to quality because of people like Rachel Dolezal.

And of course all of this is hypothetically speaking. I’ll be surprised if I see reparations in my lifetime. Lol
I could understand if there was only a 10 year history of identifying but that is in conjunction with at least 2 other criteria. I guess it's totally inconceivable to me that someone would identify as Black (and have documentation) for 10 years, be a victim of displacement in San Francisco AND be able to demonstrate that they attended school before desegregation and/or were descendants of slaves and not actually be Black. While not completely impossible it just seems improbable and not a reason to discount reparations in San Francisco.

We are starting to see reparations which is a step in the right direction, albeit slow. Tulsa, NYC, San Francisco, St. Louis, Evanston, Providence, St. Paul, Asheville, Berkley, etc... In my state the colleges/universities: UVa, College of William and Mary, VCU, Longwood, VMI. I worked on a USDA grant project (reparations) for African American farmers which disappointedly was scuttled by the Republicans but is moving forward through private funding.

It's going to happen, at least I hope so, but perhaps not in your lifetime or mine but in our kid's.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
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