Biden classified documents discovered

[Francee89]

No, he didn’t. He may have done the same thing as VP. He did not do it as a senator, which Biden did along with the other documents from the Obama administration.

Carpy is right, a senator can’t get those documents accidentally or inadvertently.

What’s the basis for saying this? Genuinely curious, as it appears the only documents that require being handled and viewed in a strictly controlled SCIF environment are those at the higher level of clearance: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... sified-do/

I have seen numerous senators, both republicans and democrats, say that to see classified documents they had to sign into a special room and sign out and no documents were allowed to be taken out of the room. I believe that the rules are somewhat different for the president and vice president and their offices in the White House, but I am not positive.

Yes, that’s what the linked article addresses - while classified documents at the higher levels require a SCIF (the special room), “it is not required that documents in the least restrictive classification categories be viewed in those facilities. The facilities are used typically for materials categorized as "top secret/sensitive compartmented information.”

There’s been no indication that the Senate era documents found weren’t the lower level kind that don’t require a SCIF, or what the security practices were in the unknown time periods they’re from.

[WellPreserved]

No, he didn’t. He may have done the same thing as VP. He did not do it as a senator, which Biden did along with the other documents from the Obama administration.

Carpy is right, a senator can’t get those documents accidentally or inadvertently.

What’s the basis for saying this? Genuinely curious, as it appears the only documents that require being handled and viewed in a strictly controlled SCIF environment are those at the higher level of clearance: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... sified-do/

I have seen numerous senators, both republicans and democrats, say that to see classified documents they had to sign into a special room and sign out and no documents were allowed to be taken out of the room. I believe that the rules are somewhat different for the president and vice president and their offices in the White House, but I am not positive.

That's not really true. Unless it's changed, you can view and store classified material (Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret) outside of a SCIF however, compartmented material - special access programs (SAPs) material under these classifications must be kept in and read in a SCIF. Just to clarify: All classified material must be stored in a secure room, a GSA-approved storage container, such as a cabinet or safe or a vault or modular vault, or a sensitive compartmented information facility (SCIF). The important word is "or".

Also, anyplace can be temporarily set up as a SCIF - boat, car, room, building, etc.

[DSamuels]

What’s the basis for saying this? Genuinely curious, as it appears the only documents that require being handled and viewed in a strictly controlled SCIF environment are those at the higher level of clearance: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... sified-do/

I have seen numerous senators, both republicans and democrats, say that to see classified documents they had to sign into a special room and sign out and no documents were allowed to be taken out of the room. I believe that the rules are somewhat different for the president and vice president and their offices in the White House, but I am not positive.

Yes, that’s what the linked article addresses - while classified documents at the higher levels require a SCIF (the special room), “it is not required that documents in the least restrictive classification categories be viewed in those facilities. The facilities are used typically for materials categorized as "top secret/sensitive compartmented information.”

There’s been no indication that the Senate era documents found weren’t the lower level kind that don’t require a SCIF, or what the security practices were in the unknown time periods they’re from.

This part I quoted sounds more like what I have been hearing.

Molly Shadel, a University of Virginia law professor who formerly worked at the Justice Department, gave an example of a Justice Department lawyer working with top secret/sensitive compartmented information materials in a SCIF. The lawyer might find that some of the documents need to be presented to a judge, which would require an off-site meeting.

"In that situation, the lawyer would use a special DOJ-issued bag with special locks and other security features" to transport the materials, Shadel said. "But that lawyer would need to lock the materials up in a SCIF when she’s not using it, perhaps at a local FBI field office. She couldn’t just keep it overnight in her hotel room."

Moss said classified documents, no matter their level, "cannot simply be removed and taken outside of any secured space without complying with security protocols." However, he called Fitzpatrick’s characterization of the process an "oversimplification."

Somehow I don’t think Senator Biden followed proper procedures.

[WellPreserved]

I have seen numerous senators, both republicans and democrats, say that to see classified documents they had to sign into a special room and sign out and no documents were allowed to be taken out of the room. I believe that the rules are somewhat different for the president and vice president and their offices in the White House, but I am not positive.

Yes, that’s what the linked article addresses - while classified documents at the higher levels require a SCIF (the special room), “it is not required that documents in the least restrictive classification categories be viewed in those facilities. The facilities are used typically for materials categorized as "top secret/sensitive compartmented information.”

There’s been no indication that the Senate era documents found weren’t the lower level kind that don’t require a SCIF, or what the security practices were in the unknown time periods they’re from.

This part I quoted sounds more like what I have been hearing.

Molly Shadel, a University of Virginia law professor who formerly worked at the Justice Department, gave an example of a Justice Department lawyer working with top secret/sensitive compartmented information materials in a SCIF. The lawyer might find that some of the documents need to be presented to a judge, which would require an off-site meeting.

"In that situation, the lawyer would use a special DOJ-issued bag with special locks and other security features" to transport the materials, Shadel said. "But that lawyer would need to lock the materials up in a SCIF when she’s not using it, perhaps at a local FBI field office. She couldn’t just keep it overnight in her hotel room."

Moss said classified documents, no matter their level, "cannot simply be removed and taken outside of any secured space without complying with security protocols." However, he called Fitzpatrick’s characterization of the process an "oversimplification."

Somehow I don’t think Senator Biden followed proper procedures.

For top secret/sensitive COMPARTMENTED information, this would be the correct protocol. However, not all top secret/sensitive information is compartmented - most isn't.

[Francee89]

I have seen numerous senators, both republicans and democrats, say that to see classified documents they had to sign into a special room and sign out and no documents were allowed to be taken out of the room. I believe that the rules are somewhat different for the president and vice president and their offices in the White House, but I am not positive.

Yes, that’s what the linked article addresses - while classified documents at the higher levels require a SCIF (the special room), “it is not required that documents in the least restrictive classification categories be viewed in those facilities. The facilities are used typically for materials categorized as "top secret/sensitive compartmented information.”

There’s been no indication that the Senate era documents found weren’t the lower level kind that don’t require a SCIF, or what the security practices were in the unknown time periods they’re from.

This part I quoted sounds more like what I have been hearing.

Molly Shadel, a University of Virginia law professor who formerly worked at the Justice Department, gave an example of a Justice Department lawyer working with top secret/sensitive compartmented information materials in a SCIF. The lawyer might find that some of the documents need to be presented to a judge, which would require an off-site meeting.

"In that situation, the lawyer would use a special DOJ-issued bag with special locks and other security features" to transport the materials, Shadel said. "But that lawyer would need to lock the materials up in a SCIF when she’s not using it, perhaps at a local FBI field office. She couldn’t just keep it overnight in her hotel room."

Moss said classified documents, no matter their level, "cannot simply be removed and taken outside of any secured space without complying with security protocols." However, he called Fitzpatrick’s characterization of the process an "oversimplification."

Somehow I don’t think Senator Biden followed proper procedures.

Could it be that someone has to jump through a couple security protocol hoops to remove lower level classified information, but there’s little to no process to ensure they’re brought back? That seems entirely possible given that in both the VP - Biden and Pence - cases, no one was asking for their documents until they volunteered them back. I’m sure whether that could also be the case for Senators will come out in the coming weeks.

[WellPreserved]

Yes, that’s what the linked article addresses - while classified documents at the higher levels require a SCIF (the special room), “it is not required that documents in the least restrictive classification categories be viewed in those facilities. The facilities are used typically for materials categorized as "top secret/sensitive compartmented information.”

There’s been no indication that the Senate era documents found weren’t the lower level kind that don’t require a SCIF, or what the security practices were in the unknown time periods they’re from.

This part I quoted sounds more like what I have been hearing.

Molly Shadel, a University of Virginia law professor who formerly worked at the Justice Department, gave an example of a Justice Department lawyer working with top secret/sensitive compartmented information materials in a SCIF. The lawyer might find that some of the documents need to be presented to a judge, which would require an off-site meeting.

"In that situation, the lawyer would use a special DOJ-issued bag with special locks and other security features" to transport the materials, Shadel said. "But that lawyer would need to lock the materials up in a SCIF when she’s not using it, perhaps at a local FBI field office. She couldn’t just keep it overnight in her hotel room."

Moss said classified documents, no matter their level, "cannot simply be removed and taken outside of any secured space without complying with security protocols." However, he called Fitzpatrick’s characterization of the process an "oversimplification."

Somehow I don’t think Senator Biden followed proper procedures.

Could it be that someone has to jump through a couple security protocol hoops to remove lower level classified information, but there’s little to no process to ensure they’re brought back? That seems entirely possible given that in both the VP - Biden and Pence - cases, no one was asking for their documents until they volunteered them back. I’m sure whether that could also be the case for Senators will come out in the coming weeks.

Classifications and treatment of classifications are HARD which is why most people with clearances go through DAYS not hours of training on how to deal with classified material. Using one of my first jobs as a technical writer with a TS-SBI clearance as an example:

Our company wrote technical manuals for highly classified equipment. At that time, text, drawings, headings, and assembly were literally via cut and paste.

Second floor - graphic artists did renderings of generic "on-off" switches, drawings of containers, and other other pretty vague items. Technical writers wrote descriptions and instructions. No classifications on those materials.

Third floor - graphic artists did renderings of more specific components and writers wrote descriptions. Material was deemed classified "secret" and was kept in office safe's overnight and security made sure that those safe's were secure - again every night.

Fourth floor (SCIF) - advanced renderings/text was compiled, program headings were placed on each page, manuals were collated and produced, and nothing left the SCIF at any time until the shipment went out to DOD.

Here is the difficulty. That drawing of the on/off switch was not classified in any way until it was combined with the drawing of other components and then it was deemed secret. Once that was combined with the complete components, it was deemed TS. Once that was combined with the document as a whole and given a program heading, it was deemed compartmented. So now uncleared Joe technical drawer who took some of his unclassified drawings home to work on them in front of the TV and left drafts was in possession of TS-SBI documents.

It's challenging and the whole process relies on humans making good decisions and no mistakes. However, it also relies on humans being understanding that when mistakes happen, it is in the best interest not only of them personally but of the country for them to be forthright and turn over documents.

[Carpy]

If the leaker is correct on what these documents pertain to. The timing of the documents and Hunters business dealings with 10% for the big guy, Hunters easy access and linking to his laptop and the investigation into Hunter could blow this wide open.

[Della]

If the leaker is correct on what these documents pertain to. The timing of the documents and Hunters business dealings with 10% for the big guy, Hunters easy access and linking to his laptop and the investigation into Hunter could blow this wide open.

Obama-Biden Administration records with classified markings are about Chinese collaboration by the Biden family?

[Carpy]

If the leaker is correct on what these documents pertain to. The timing of the documents and Hunters business dealings with 10% for the big guy, Hunters easy access and linking to his laptop and the investigation into Hunter could blow this wide open.

Obama-Biden Administration records with classified markings are about Chinese collaboration by the Biden family?

Seriously?

[Della]

If the leaker is correct on what these documents pertain to. The timing of the documents and Hunters business dealings with 10% for the big guy, Hunters easy access and linking to his laptop and the investigation into Hunter could blow this wide open.

Obama-Biden Administration records with classified markings are about Chinese collaboration by the Biden family?

Seriously?

Just trying to clarify.

By the way, whatever happened to Tony Bobulinkski?