What does this quote make you think? Agree or disagree?

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Deleted User 1990

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We’ve got about 25% less gun owners now than when I was a kid in the 1980’s

Do you feel like the crime rate has increased or decreased since the ?
jessilin0113 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:24 pm I don't think I would agree. We have more guns than people and according to some, our crime rate is skyrocketing. If that's true then guns aren't working. If it's not true, I don't think I've seen evidence that guns are what is causing the reduction, especially since the guns are concentrated in a small percentage of the population. They can't all be in the right place at the right time. And the quote smacks of victim-blaming.


We as a society could do more to reduce crime, but it's not right or fair to put the burden on an individual.
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:36 pm We’ve got about 25% less gun owners now than when I was a kid in the 1980’s

Do you feel like the crime rate has increased or decreased since the ?
jessilin0113 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:24 pm I don't think I would agree. We have more guns than people and according to some, our crime rate is skyrocketing. If that's true then guns aren't working. If it's not true, I don't think I've seen evidence that guns are what is causing the reduction, especially since the guns are concentrated in a small percentage of the population. They can't all be in the right place at the right time. And the quote smacks of victim-blaming.


We as a society could do more to reduce crime, but it's not right or fair to put the burden on an individual.
I believe, and statistically I think it's correct, that crime has decreased. It has gone up a bit in recent years, but it's still at a comparative low since the 80s-90s.

Does gun ownership have an effect on crime? Less guns correlates to less crime, apparently, and vice versa.
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:57 pm
SallyMae wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:20 pm It's not working. Massively arming the population for personal defense is resulting in many, many more deaths.
Actually… it’s going the opposite way to what you’re saying.

Gun ownership in America has gone massively down… it used to be half of Americans owned guns, now it’s about a quarter - 30% , and we are becoming a more and more dangerous country by the day.
This statistic is so deliberately misleading it's ridiculous.

First of all, as of 2021, 42% of U.S. households own guns - not 30%. That's up from a low of 37% in 2019. Not "about a quarter."

Secondly, in 1980 when it was about half (47%), the population was smaller. There were only 80 million or so households. If about half had a gun, that was 40 million households.

Today there are closer to 130 million households. If 42% have guns, that is about 55 million households, up by fifteen million. Seven million new households became gun owners just in 2020-21.

Plus, this percentage does not account for the sheer number of guns being put into circulation, which is way up.

Image


Gun ownership is not "massively down." More households have guns and there are more guns than ever. That is what is making America more dangerous by the day.



Percentage of households in the United States owning one or more firearms from 1972 to 2021
https://www.statista.com/statistics/249 ... a-firearm/
Deleted User 1990

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No… it’s not misleading.

When I was a child in the 80’s about 50% of American households had guns.
Today, around 34-36% have guns.

If the gun ownership rate was going to remain steady, it would have risen at the same rate to meet the growing population. It did not. It declined…


There are enough guns in circulation to provide every single American with a gun, but that’s not reality when it comes to how many households have guns. Typically, when people have guns they don’t just stop at one… some get 3, some get 8, some get 34…


If the rate of crime has increased, there might be another reason besides gun ownership rates as a whole. If the rate of crime has decreased like jessilin says it has, then you would probably be able to write a great paper on how gun ownership declining is contributing to the crime rate decreasing…
SallyMae wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:23 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:57 pm
SallyMae wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:20 pm It's not working. Massively arming the population for personal defense is resulting in many, many more deaths.
Actually… it’s going the opposite way to what you’re saying.

Gun ownership in America has gone massively down… it used to be half of Americans owned guns, now it’s about a quarter - 30% , and we are becoming a more and more dangerous country by the day.
This statistic is so deliberately misleading it's ridiculous.

First of all, as of 2021, 42% of U.S. households own guns - not 30%. That's up from a low of 37% in 2019. Not "about a quarter."

Secondly, in 1980 when it was about half (47%), the population was smaller. There were only 80 million or so households. If about half had a gun, that was 40 million households.

Today there are closer to 130 million households. If 42% have guns, that is about 55 million households, up by fifteen million. Seven million new households became gun owners just in 2020-21.

Plus, this percentage does not account for the sheer number of guns being put into circulation, which is way up.

Image


Gun ownership is not "massively down." More households have guns and there are more guns than ever. That is what is making America more dangerous by the day.



Percentage of households in the United States owning one or more firearms from 1972 to 2021
https://www.statista.com/statistics/249 ... a-firearm/
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:22 pm
Aletheia wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:06 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:43 pm 30946370-E8F0-42F6-9164-B34764629444.jpeg
3. You are never going to have a society in which all members are equally dangerous. And, even if you did have a society where everyone had 5 years military training and went around with a loaded gun at all times... the advantage would still lie with criminals who make their first shot, from cover and with no warning. Or who just wait until their target is drunk or otherwise distracted (eg carrying shopping bags in either hand).
3) were never going to fully stop crime, this is a quote on how to lessen it.
But why would it lessen it?

Making people more dangerous, on average, doesn't stop criminals - because the criminals just get more dangerous too.
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Aletheia
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:22 pm
Aletheia wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:06 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:43 pm 30946370-E8F0-42F6-9164-B34764629444.jpeg
4. What is your evidence that his holds true in all societies? For example, in Britain, the police manage to arrest and prosecute more than 3 out of every 4 murderers. They are very much a deterrent.
4) that’s great, but in order to prosecute murderers, there’s already a dead victim. This is about how to stop the victimization.
The original quote talked about making the criminals fear the people they are considering comitting crimes again, and said that was the ONLY way.

My point was that this claim is untrue. In Britain there are potentials criminals who stop before they actually murder someone in cold blood, not because they're afraid of their intended victim, but because they know they're likely to get caught by the police and spend the next decade or so in a prison.
Deleted User 1990

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Aletheia wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:59 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:22 pm
Aletheia wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:06 pm
4. What is your evidence that his holds true in all societies? For example, in Britain, the police manage to arrest and prosecute more than 3 out of every 4 murderers. They are very much a deterrent.
4) that’s great, but in order to prosecute murderers, there’s already a dead victim. This is about how to stop the victimization.
The original quote talked about making the criminals fear the people they are considering comitting crimes again, and said that was the ONLY way.

My point was that this claim is untrue. In Britain there are potentials criminals who stop before they actually murder someone in cold blood, not because they're afraid of their intended victim, but because they know they're likely to get caught by the police and spend the next decade or so in a prison.
You’re right there, it’s not the only way…
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