2 Hawaiian men guilty of hate crime in white man’s beating

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SouthernIslander
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RIZZY_1 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:03 pm Gosh, they could have killed that man. How scary.

I can believe that the Hawaiians were not using the term in a racial sense. Possibly. But I do not believe that they didn't mean anything by it. They were clearly using it in a derogatory and pejorative sense and they clearly did not want a foreigner living there in their village. So, I still think this qualifies as a hate crime.

Hawaii has a lot going on with native islanders and foreigners. They're basically begging people to stop moving and vacationing there. After reading the article, it sounds like the white guy moved there with no other intention than to start a new life. But, he wasn't wanted there. I think his mistake was cutting those locks. His statement about being able to provide better locks and keys for everyone just sounds very much like white man's burden to me, and probably came off that way to the islanders. It's not an excuse to beat someone half to death. But I think it was a good idea for him to move to Puerto Rico instead.
That would be my guess as well and I agree that it doesn’t justify violence. Hawaii has a very low crime rate so so don’t want to give the impression that behavior is socially acceptable or they want all white people banned from the island.

But they do have a lot going on and all the political drama over here hasn’t made the mistrust any better unfortunately.

I hope one day that changes for the better because it is a beautiful place that everyone should experience.
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RIZZY_1 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:03 pm Gosh, they could have killed that man. How scary.

I can believe that the Hawaiians were not using the term in a racial sense. Possibly. But I do not believe that they didn't mean anything by it. They were clearly using it in a derogatory and pejorative sense and they clearly did not want a foreigner living there in their village. So, I still think this qualifies as a hate crime.

Hawaii has a lot going on with native islanders and foreigners. They're basically begging people to stop moving and vacationing there. After reading the article, it sounds like the white guy moved there with no other intention than to start a new life. But, he wasn't wanted there. I think his mistake was cutting those locks. His statement about being able to provide better locks and keys for everyone just sounds very much like white man's burden to me, and probably came off that way to the islanders. It's not an excuse to beat someone half to death. But I think it was a good idea for him to move to Puerto Rico instead.
We wouldn’t allow White people in a wealthy locked community to fight an outsider because they didn’t want him to move to their small community. We don’t allow this either. Just because they were there first is no excuse. It’s an American state.
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Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:57 pm
RIZZY_1 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:03 pm Gosh, they could have killed that man. How scary.

I can believe that the Hawaiians were not using the term in a racial sense. Possibly. But I do not believe that they didn't mean anything by it. They were clearly using it in a derogatory and pejorative sense and they clearly did not want a foreigner living there in their village. So, I still think this qualifies as a hate crime.

Hawaii has a lot going on with native islanders and foreigners. They're basically begging people to stop moving and vacationing there. After reading the article, it sounds like the white guy moved there with no other intention than to start a new life. But, he wasn't wanted there. I think his mistake was cutting those locks. His statement about being able to provide better locks and keys for everyone just sounds very much like white man's burden to me, and probably came off that way to the islanders. It's not an excuse to beat someone half to death. But I think it was a good idea for him to move to Puerto Rico instead.
We wouldn’t allow White people in a wealthy locked community to fight an outsider because they didn’t want him to move to their small community. We don’t allow this either. Just because they were there first is no excuse. It’s an American state.
I thought you were against colonization.

https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/tim ... 20governor.
306/232

But I'm still the winner! They lied! They cheated! They stole the election!
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Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:57 pm
RIZZY_1 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:03 pm Gosh, they could have killed that man. How scary.

I can believe that the Hawaiians were not using the term in a racial sense. Possibly. But I do not believe that they didn't mean anything by it. They were clearly using it in a derogatory and pejorative sense and they clearly did not want a foreigner living there in their village. So, I still think this qualifies as a hate crime.

Hawaii has a lot going on with native islanders and foreigners. They're basically begging people to stop moving and vacationing there. After reading the article, it sounds like the white guy moved there with no other intention than to start a new life. But, he wasn't wanted there. I think his mistake was cutting those locks. His statement about being able to provide better locks and keys for everyone just sounds very much like white man's burden to me, and probably came off that way to the islanders. It's not an excuse to beat someone half to death. But I think it was a good idea for him to move to Puerto Rico instead.
We wouldn’t allow White people in a wealthy locked community to fight an outsider because they didn’t want him to move to their small community. We don’t allow this either. Just because they were there first is no excuse. It’s an American state.
She clearly said that didn’t justify violence.

What she is saying is correct and there are reasons why there is a lot of bad blood there. Acknowledging that isn’t condoning the attack.

Lastly, it’s an American state but the culture is completely different. There is a certain amount of respect given to native Hawaiians because they were there first and before the land was inhumanly stolen from them.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:32 pm
Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:57 pm
RIZZY_1 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:03 pm Gosh, they could have killed that man. How scary.

I can believe that the Hawaiians were not using the term in a racial sense. Possibly. But I do not believe that they didn't mean anything by it. They were clearly using it in a derogatory and pejorative sense and they clearly did not want a foreigner living there in their village. So, I still think this qualifies as a hate crime.

Hawaii has a lot going on with native islanders and foreigners. They're basically begging people to stop moving and vacationing there. After reading the article, it sounds like the white guy moved there with no other intention than to start a new life. But, he wasn't wanted there. I think his mistake was cutting those locks. His statement about being able to provide better locks and keys for everyone just sounds very much like white man's burden to me, and probably came off that way to the islanders. It's not an excuse to beat someone half to death. But I think it was a good idea for him to move to Puerto Rico instead.
We wouldn’t allow White people in a wealthy locked community to fight an outsider because they didn’t want him to move to their small community. We don’t allow this either. Just because they were there first is no excuse. It’s an American state.
She clearly said that didn’t justify violence.

What she is saying is correct and there are reasons why there is a lot of bad blood there. Acknowledging that isn’t condoning the attack.

Lastly, it’s an American state but the culture is completely different. There is a certain amount of respect given to native Hawaiians because they were there first and before the land was inhumanly stolen from them.
I wasn’t addressing anyone in particular. And I don’t think that any respect should be given to violent men who don’t want you to live in the house you bought because you weren’t born there.
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Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:53 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:32 pm
Lemons wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:57 pm

We wouldn’t allow White people in a wealthy locked community to fight an outsider because they didn’t want him to move to their small community. We don’t allow this either. Just because they were there first is no excuse. It’s an American state.
She clearly said that didn’t justify violence.

What she is saying is correct and there are reasons why there is a lot of bad blood there. Acknowledging that isn’t condoning the attack.

Lastly, it’s an American state but the culture is completely different. There is a certain amount of respect given to native Hawaiians because they were there first and before the land was inhumanly stolen from them.
I wasn’t addressing anyone in particular. And I don’t think that any respect should be given to violent men who don’t want you to live in the house you bought because you weren’t born there.
No one said the violence was excusable, so there is no need to keep brining that up. It doesn't matter what you think, no more than Hawaii gave a shit about the far-right trump supporters you constantly complain about despite the fact that you sound just like them.

Bottom line, a lot has happened to facilitate the bad relationship between Native Hawaiians and White community since Cook landed on the island. That is the bigger problem that needs to be fixed whether you understand that or not.
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Baconqueen13 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:04 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:48 pm
Baconqueen13 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 pm

Yeah but using it just before you beat the crap out of someone kind of implies it's being used in the derogatory fashion. Does it really make that much of a difference if you're describing their race or " mainland behavior"
My comment was general about the term. I don’t know all the details of the altercation.
I get that, but common sense would dictate that using that term before beating someone up would generally mean it's use is not in the "innocent" way. One doesn't need to know the details of an altercation to understand that it was used negatively as a derogatory slur.
An added "definition" or explanation of the term itself isn't really needed. I'm pretty sure most of us understand how one word can have several different meanings depending on context of how it's being used. (we all know Karen can be an actual name and can be used as an insult) If a word or term is being used before beating someone up, it's always in the "bad" way and not the innocent way.

I was multi tasking earlier, but looked for more details about the altercation and found the white man’s side of the story.

“Every single comment had haole and the F word,” Kunzelman said.

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/man-a ... NEVETDRxWA..

They repeatedly called him a F***ing haole during the attack. That is why I was explaining the context of the term and this is an example of why it matters, even if mainlanders don’t think it does.

It further validates the white man’s claim that his attack was racially motivated.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:00 am
Baconqueen13 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:04 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:48 pm

My comment was general about the term. I don’t know all the details of the altercation.
I get that, but common sense would dictate that using that term before beating someone up would generally mean it's use is not in the "innocent" way. One doesn't need to know the details of an altercation to understand that it was used negatively as a derogatory slur.
An added "definition" or explanation of the term itself isn't really needed. I'm pretty sure most of us understand how one word can have several different meanings depending on context of how it's being used. (we all know Karen can be an actual name and can be used as an insult) If a word or term is being used before beating someone up, it's always in the "bad" way and not the innocent way.

I was multi tasking earlier, but looked for more details about the altercation and found the white man’s side of the story.

“Every single comment had haole and the F word,” Kunzelman said.

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/man-a ... NEVETDRxWA..

They repeatedly called him a F***ing haole during the attack. That is why I was explaining the context of the term and this is an example of why it matters, even if mainlanders don’t think it does.

It further validates the white man’s claim that his attack was racially motivated.
The victim's claim was never in question.
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Baconqueen13 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:23 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:00 am
Baconqueen13 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:04 am

I get that, but common sense would dictate that using that term before beating someone up would generally mean it's use is not in the "innocent" way. One doesn't need to know the details of an altercation to understand that it was used negatively as a derogatory slur.
An added "definition" or explanation of the term itself isn't really needed. I'm pretty sure most of us understand how one word can have several different meanings depending on context of how it's being used. (we all know Karen can be an actual name and can be used as an insult) If a word or term is being used before beating someone up, it's always in the "bad" way and not the innocent way.

I was multi tasking earlier, but looked for more details about the altercation and found the white man’s side of the story.

“Every single comment had haole and the F word,” Kunzelman said.

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/man-a ... NEVETDRxWA..

They repeatedly called him a F***ing haole during the attack. That is why I was explaining the context of the term and this is an example of why it matters, even if mainlanders don’t think it does.

It further validates the white man’s claim that his attack was racially motivated.
The victim's claim was never in question.
Yes, it was in question or else it wouldn’t have been mentioned in court or this article. It wasn’t caught on tape and they denied using it as a racial slur.

So the point about context still stands and applied on this case.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:31 am
Baconqueen13 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:23 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:00 am


I was multi tasking earlier, but looked for more details about the altercation and found the white man’s side of the story.




https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/man-a ... NEVETDRxWA..

They repeatedly called him a F***ing haole during the attack. That is why I was explaining the context of the term and this is an example of why it matters, even if mainlanders don’t think it does.

It further validates the white man’s claim that his attack was racially motivated.
The victim's claim was never in question.
Yes, it was in question or else it wouldn’t have been mentioned in court or this article. It wasn’t caught on tape and they denied using it as a racial slur.

So the point about context still stands and applied on this case.
Let me rephrase. you were the only one questioning it.
The article was pretty straightforward and given that the attackers were found guilty of a hate crime the doubt should have been removed. Trying to justify the attackers using the term Haole is like trying to justify use of the term n*gg*, or gringo, or wet back, or chink". It's just not acceptable no matter how you dress it up to try to make it "wholesome". They're all ethnic slurs. Just because it's "accepted" in a certain culture does not make it any less of a slur.
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