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Momto2boys973
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I second that 100%.
I’ve also found that those who claim to be oh-so-tolerant are the most intolerant, and those claiming they’re open minded are usually very close minded.
AZOldCoot wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:45 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:17 pm
AZOldCoot wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:59 pm Provided that those who practice a specific religion (and I'm not only referring to Christians) do not force their beliefs on others as they've done for so long, l do feel religions and those who don't follow one can coexist.

It's called mutual respect for the diversity in this world that goes beyond cultural, political, and social differences.

We have a long way to go and a lot of work to do to get there.
I'm not religious so perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't one of the tenants of most religions conversion? I mean, can you be Christian (even mainline Christian denominations) and not care if others believe as you do? Perhaps in some of the denominations like Quaker and Unitarian which are seeing record numbers of followers but if we look at religion as a "business", they need adherents to survive.

Personally, I feel that religious institutions who offer guidance and support for their entire community without exclusivity will survive. Those that try to remain exclusive, won't. I'm not going to see change in my life-time but maybe my kids?
I, myself, am a Christian Unitarian and I've often wondered if I have always been so. I was raised in a Pentecostal Evangelical home though my late dad grew very disenchanted by what he viewed as corruption, hypocrisy, and exclusivity among those in his church that he had attended.

As a Unitarian, I feel that everyone has a right to believe in what they wish to...or don't believe in.

Yes, there are many Christians who feel that everyone must only follow the "good book," and live life as they believe god designed it. However, there are many others who simply want to be allowed to worship as they choose to and not be mocked and ridiculed for it.

I've found that many self-described "free thinkers" in this world are some of the least free thinking individual's on the planet UNLESS you agree with them.

Unless someone or many are choke-holding others to "do as the bible tells you to," they should be free to believe as they do and as they find it useful and beneficial in their own lives.
❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:03 pm Obviously he was wrong. So not even a smart hater. And soooo ignorant to add.
There's a long tradition of people calling a majority of Christians out for acting in ways that are incompatible with the stated values of Christianity.

But is that really being a hater?

After all, most of those who do the calling out are also Christians.
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:03 pm Obviously he was wrong.
In some things, yes.

He said "Judaism, Christianity and Islam [...] lack the means of accommodating one another. "

Would you say that the amount of harmony between the Abrahamic religions, over the past 50 years, has increased or decreased?
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:03 pm
he thinks they are not good for modern man
Obviously he was wrong.
Why "obviously"?
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:18 pm In some religions, yes. Judaism, for example, makes conversion very hard. It’s a long and very hard process for the one wishing to convert.
I know there are also Christian denominations that aren’t involved in proselytizing.
WellPreserved wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:17 pm
AZOldCoot wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:59 pm Provided that those who practice a specific religion (and I'm not only referring to Christians) do not force their beliefs on others as they've done for so long, l do feel religions and those who don't follow one can coexist.

It's called mutual respect for the diversity in this world that goes beyond cultural, political, and social differences.

We have a long way to go and a lot of work to do to get there.
I'm not religious so perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't one of the tenants of most religions conversion? I mean, can you be Christian (even mainline Christian denominations) and not care if others believe as you do? Perhaps in some of the denominations like Quaker and Unitarian which are seeing record numbers of followers but if we look at religion as a "business", they need adherents to survive.

Personally, I feel that religious institutions who offer guidance and support for their entire community without exclusivity will survive. Those that try to remain exclusive, won't. I'm not going to see change in my life-time but maybe my kids?
I wasn't thinking about proselytizing. I was thinking that in most Abrahamic faith denominations, you are required to believe in God (in Christian denominations you are also required to accept Jesus as son of God) and the expectation is that other members of your faith group will believe as you do. Quakers and Unitarian Universalist churches are unique in that their foundational principals regard morals rather than a requirement in a belief in God.

I agree with SallyMae - "The real strength of religion is providing a moral community to grow in.

I think in the future there could be many new religions, based not on supernatural claims, but on fellowship, mutual aid, celebration and a shared quest for transcendence."
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
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WellPreserved wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:37 am
Momto2boys973 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:18 pm In some religions, yes. Judaism, for example, makes conversion very hard. It’s a long and very hard process for the one wishing to convert.
I know there are also Christian denominations that aren’t involved in proselytizing.
WellPreserved wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:17 pm

I'm not religious so perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't one of the tenants of most religions conversion? I mean, can you be Christian (even mainline Christian denominations) and not care if others believe as you do? Perhaps in some of the denominations like Quaker and Unitarian which are seeing record numbers of followers but if we look at religion as a "business", they need adherents to survive.

Personally, I feel that religious institutions who offer guidance and support for their entire community without exclusivity will survive. Those that try to remain exclusive, won't. I'm not going to see change in my life-time but maybe my kids?
I wasn't thinking about proselytizing. I was thinking that in most Abrahamic faith denominations, you are required to believe in God (in Christian denominations you are also required to accept Jesus as son of God) and the expectation is that other members of your faith group will believe as you do. Quakers and Unitarian Universalist churches are unique in that their foundational principals regard morals rather than a requirement in a belief in God.

I agree with SallyMae - "The real strength of religion is providing a moral community to grow in.

I think in the future there could be many new religions, based not on supernatural claims, but on fellowship, mutual aid, celebration and a shared quest for transcendence."
As long as Christians (any religions) are not choke-holding others to adhere to their beliefs, basing laws on those beliefs (which needs to stop), and making the famous claims of "you'll burn in hell if you don't believe " (which is no longer the case in many Christian houses or beliefs), how does this impact the non-believers?

How can a community grow if other's who are a part of that same community are being made to feel wrong for what is perceived as a belief in the "supernatural" by some? What type of fellowship and a "shared quest for transcendence" is that?

*You* don't induce a community vibe by putting other's down as the person you've quoted so often does here.
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AZOldCoot wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:06 am
WellPreserved wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:37 am
Momto2boys973 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:18 pm In some religions, yes. Judaism, for example, makes conversion very hard. It’s a long and very hard process for the one wishing to convert.
I know there are also Christian denominations that aren’t involved in proselytizing.

I wasn't thinking about proselytizing. I was thinking that in most Abrahamic faith denominations, you are required to believe in God (in Christian denominations you are also required to accept Jesus as son of God) and the expectation is that other members of your faith group will believe as you do. Quakers and Unitarian Universalist churches are unique in that their foundational principals regard morals rather than a requirement in a belief in God.

I agree with SallyMae - "The real strength of religion is providing a moral community to grow in.

I think in the future there could be many new religions, based not on supernatural claims, but on fellowship, mutual aid, celebration and a shared quest for transcendence."
As long as Christians (any religions) are not choke-holding others to adhere to their beliefs, basing laws on those beliefs (which needs to stop), and making the famous claims of "you'll burn in hell if you don't believe " (which is no longer the case in many Christian houses or beliefs), how does this impact the non-believers?

How can a community grow if other's who are a part of that same community are being made to feel wrong for what is perceived as a belief in the "supernatural" by some? What type of fellowship and a "shared quest for transcendence" is that?

*You* don't induce a community vibe by putting other's down as the person you've quoted so often does here.
I think communities are strongest when there is diversity in thought. I don't feel that anyone should feel criticized for their beliefs but should be criticized for their actions even when a person feels justified for the actions due to their belief and I believe all communities whether they believe in a god or not, should be working for the betterment of others.

I've always thought of Sally Mae as extremely respectful in her comments.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
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WellPreserved wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:28 am
AZOldCoot wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:06 am
WellPreserved wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:37 am

I wasn't thinking about proselytizing. I was thinking that in most Abrahamic faith denominations, you are required to believe in God (in Christian denominations you are also required to accept Jesus as son of God) and the expectation is that other members of your faith group will believe as you do. Quakers and Unitarian Universalist churches are unique in that their foundational principals regard morals rather than a requirement in a belief in God.

I agree with SallyMae - "The real strength of religion is providing a moral community to grow in.

I think in the future there could be many new religions, based not on supernatural claims, but on fellowship, mutual aid, celebration and a shared quest for transcendence."
As long as Christians (any religions) are not choke-holding others to adhere to their beliefs, basing laws on those beliefs (which needs to stop), and making the famous claims of "you'll burn in hell if you don't believe " (which is no longer the case in many Christian houses or beliefs), how does this impact the non-believers?

How can a community grow if other's who are a part of that same community are being made to feel wrong for what is perceived as a belief in the "supernatural" by some? What type of fellowship and a "shared quest for transcendence" is that?

*You* don't induce a community vibe by putting other's down as the person you've quoted so often does here.
I think communities are strongest when there is diversity in thought. I don't feel that anyone should feel criticized for their beliefs but should be criticized for their actions even when a person feels justified for the actions due to their belief and I believe all communities whether they believe in a god or not, should be working for the betterment of others.

I've always thought of Sally Mae as extremely respectful in her comments.
Your first paragraph, I agree with you. Your second one, I'll simply do an agree to disagree.

There's no opportunity to foster a sense of community when individual's within that community are being insulted for their religious beliefs ("supernatural") and the same goes for those who will cite a judgement of damnation and burning in hell for not believing.

As I've written originally, human beings have a lot of growing to do before we see any type of equilibrium between believers and those who don't.
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Religion is not going away-that's nonsense. But modern religion has to change with the times if it wants to remain relevant and it has to a large degree. However, Catholicism does need to get with the program and start treating men and women as equals (this means it's way past time women were allowed to be priests, for God's sake!
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AZOldCoot wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:41 am
WellPreserved wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:28 am
AZOldCoot wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:06 am

As long as Christians (any religions) are not choke-holding others to adhere to their beliefs, basing laws on those beliefs (which needs to stop), and making the famous claims of "you'll burn in hell if you don't believe " (which is no longer the case in many Christian houses or beliefs), how does this impact the non-believers?

How can a community grow if other's who are a part of that same community are being made to feel wrong for what is perceived as a belief in the "supernatural" by some? What type of fellowship and a "shared quest for transcendence" is that?

*You* don't induce a community vibe by putting other's down as the person you've quoted so often does here.
I think communities are strongest when there is diversity in thought. I don't feel that anyone should feel criticized for their beliefs but should be criticized for their actions even when a person feels justified for the actions due to their belief and I believe all communities whether they believe in a god or not, should be working for the betterment of others.

I've always thought of Sally Mae as extremely respectful in her comments.
Your first paragraph, I agree with you. Your second one, I'll simply do an agree to disagree.

There's no opportunity to foster a sense of community when individual's within that community are being insulted for their religious beliefs ("supernatural") and the same goes for those who will cite a judgement of damnation and burning in hell for not believing.

As I've written originally, human beings have a lot of growing to do before we see any type of equilibrium between believers and those who don't.
How does the term "supernatural" insult someone regarding their religious beliefs? Isn't supernatural a universal term to describe God or all gods?

Definition of supernatural
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe
especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
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