Separation of Church and State Vs. Christian led Manifest Destiny

[Carpy]

The original 13 colonies were each a different flavor of Christianity and they conceived church/state separation to protect their sects from rule by other sects.

Wow. You got something right. I would add to protect them from the feds enforcing a national religion.

[Deleted User 1990]

I honestly don’t care what our founding fathers were, be it Christian, Jewish or secret Chtullu worshipers. I also don’t fully know their beliefs. I simply stated I think Franklin might have been influenced by Voltaire and other philosophers of the day. It just seems to me they wanted both religious freedom and separation of church and state. They probably wanted it because many pilgrims came fleeing religious persecution. So if you were Christian, Quaker, Catholic or a Mason you could practice as you wanted. And the government couldn’t persecute you for it. I’m not sure what their being Christian has to do with their wanting separation of church and state. Who cares?

I don’t really care lol…

This is just a spin off thought I had based on the Lauren Boebart post where her beliefs in separation of church and state were being discussed.

From an Uber Christian point of view, what she’s saying makes sense and was probably true..
From any other point of view it’s a horrific thought and not the kind of country they want to live in…

No real point I guess other than to mirror what was happening then to what’s happening today and pointing out the duality behind the country.

Words = It’s for everyone
Actions/Laws = it’s a Christian nation

It’s easy to see why there are two such opposing sides, each believing their truths…

Sorry to keep quoting you, lol. but...

To me, it seems like the opposite. While the founding fathers talk a lot about their religious beliefs, they specifically wrote the bill of rights, constitution, etc., to include language barring the establishment of any particular religion. Perhaps they just wanted to be sure that their colonies were to free to practice the reigning religion...but why wouldn't we interpret that in a modern way? I don't think Christians even really want this to be a "Christian nation", just right wing extremists. And even if that's what they think they want, they'll get a huge wake up call when their entire way of life is forced to change depending on the interpretation of the Bible of whoever is in power at the time.

I would agree with you at an initial glance, but it’s sort of like slavery, which monarch mentioned…


It’s in the language that all men are free, but it was in the law to allow slavery,
It’s in the language that all religions are equal but it was in the law for us to have a Court of Indian Offenses that included banning their religions in essence, and punished them for holding ceremonies.


What “we” as a nation say and what we do have always been a bit separated.

[RIZZY1]

I don’t really care lol…

This is just a spin off thought I had based on the Lauren Boebart post where her beliefs in separation of church and state were being discussed.

From an Uber Christian point of view, what she’s saying makes sense and was probably true..
From any other point of view it’s a horrific thought and not the kind of country they want to live in…

No real point I guess other than to mirror what was happening then to what’s happening today and pointing out the duality behind the country.

Words = It’s for everyone
Actions/Laws = it’s a Christian nation

It’s easy to see why there are two such opposing sides, each believing their truths…

Sorry to keep quoting you, lol. but...

To me, it seems like the opposite. While the founding fathers talk a lot about their religious beliefs, they specifically wrote the bill of rights, constitution, etc., to include language barring the establishment of any particular religion. Perhaps they just wanted to be sure that their colonies were to free to practice the reigning religion...but why wouldn't we interpret that in a modern way? I don't think Christians even really want this to be a "Christian nation", just right wing extremists. And even if that's what they think they want, they'll get a huge wake up call when their entire way of life is forced to change depending on the interpretation of the Bible of whoever is in power at the time.

I would agree with you at an initial glance, but it’s sort of like slavery, which monarch mentioned…


It’s in the language that all men are free, but it was in the law to allow slavery,
It’s in the language that all religions are equal but it was in the law for us to have a Court of Indian Offenses that included banning their religions in essence, and punished them for holding ceremonies.


What “we” as a nation say and what we do have always been a bit separated.

72% of our current population see a strong need for separation of church and state. I think that's all that matters. Modern societies don't want government to be based on religion.

[Deleted User 1990]

Sorry to keep quoting you, lol. but...

To me, it seems like the opposite. While the founding fathers talk a lot about their religious beliefs, they specifically wrote the bill of rights, constitution, etc., to include language barring the establishment of any particular religion. Perhaps they just wanted to be sure that their colonies were to free to practice the reigning religion...but why wouldn't we interpret that in a modern way? I don't think Christians even really want this to be a "Christian nation", just right wing extremists. And even if that's what they think they want, they'll get a huge wake up call when their entire way of life is forced to change depending on the interpretation of the Bible of whoever is in power at the time.

I would agree with you at an initial glance, but it’s sort of like slavery, which monarch mentioned…


It’s in the language that all men are free, but it was in the law to allow slavery,
It’s in the language that all religions are equal but it was in the law for us to have a Court of Indian Offenses that included banning their religions in essence, and punished them for holding ceremonies.


What “we” as a nation say and what we do have always been a bit separated.

72% of our current population see a strong need for separation of church and state. I think that's all that matters. Modern societies don't want government to be based on religion.

How do we know it’s 72%?

Because the laws recently keep going in a sweepingly conservative Christian way… even ones voted on.

[SallyMae]

The original 13 colonies were each a different flavor of Christianity and they conceived church/state separation to protect their sects from rule by other sects.

Wow. You got something right. I would add to protect them from the feds enforcing a national religion.

You should try it, lol. It remains to be seen how long we can keep it that way.

[RIZZY1]

I would agree with you at an initial glance, but it’s sort of like slavery, which monarch mentioned…


It’s in the language that all men are free, but it was in the law to allow slavery,
It’s in the language that all religions are equal but it was in the law for us to have a Court of Indian Offenses that included banning their religions in essence, and punished them for holding ceremonies.


What “we” as a nation say and what we do have always been a bit separated.

72% of our current population see a strong need for separation of church and state. I think that's all that matters. Modern societies don't want government to be based on religion.

How do we know it’s 72%?

Because the laws recently keep going in a sweepingly conservative Christian way… even ones voted on.

I was just taking a political affiliation quiz by PEW and when it gave me my results, it showed a bunch of statistics like that. The 72% stood out to me because you just posted this. But when I'm googling to find similar results, I'm not seeing 72% everywhere. All of the articles/studies I'm seeing support the idea that at least the majority of the population support a separation of church and state (50% or more, but a lot of the studies are showing upwards of 60%). Bit mind boggling to me because, from my perspective, it has always been one of the cornerstones of our constitution and society. I mean, yes, Europeans left Europe in part because of imperialism but they left in droves fleeing from church-states.

I agree that it seems to me that we have a lot of sweepingly conservative laws and bills proposed lately. Yet, conservatives are always saying that leftists are ruining this country. So, which is it? How do you feel about that? Do people on this site (anyone reading this) want the U.S. to be a "Christian" nation, where the law is made based on the Bible? Which version? And which interpretation?

[hotspice58]

The laws shouldn’t’t just be based on Christianity. The Europeans came and took over because they wanted freedom of religion. Laughing at liberty when slavery was a law and Indians were forced from their homes.