Where is all the water going?

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Quorra2.0
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Thelma Harper wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:54 am
Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:20 pm Saudi Arabia.

Sorry a little salty that my state is massively cutting agricultural water usage but exempting the 15 sq mile Saudi owned farm which is growing alfalfa, a high water consuming crop.

In general, water evaporates, clouds fill heavily with the condensation, then rain/snow/sleet returns it. However, with the current climate conditions, the condensation has been evaporating too quickly before it barely “leaves” the clouds, so never making it to the land or our water ways.
When did that begin?
When did which begin? The Saudi lease in AZ was 2015 I believe. Not sure when they started they California purchases but have read a few blips here and there about the company buying up farms in Blythe. The climate conditions have been progressive, ebbing and flowing since the dust bowl that contributed to the Great Depression, with progressively less ebbing the past couple decades.
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Quorra2.0 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:07 pm
Thelma Harper wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:54 am
Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:20 pm Saudi Arabia.

Sorry a little salty that my state is massively cutting agricultural water usage but exempting the 15 sq mile Saudi owned farm which is growing alfalfa, a high water consuming crop.

In general, water evaporates, clouds fill heavily with the condensation, then rain/snow/sleet returns it. However, with the current climate conditions, the condensation has been evaporating too quickly before it barely “leaves” the clouds, so never making it to the land or our water ways.
When did that begin?
When did which begin? The Saudi lease in AZ was 2015 I believe. Not sure when they started they California purchases but have read a few blips here and there about the company buying up farms in Blythe. The climate conditions have been progressive, ebbing and flowing since the dust bowl that contributed to the Great Depression, with progressively less ebbing the past couple decades.
The lease agreements. Thank you for replying. This is insane.
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SallyMae wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:18 pm Fresh water is a serious problem, but there is an answer. Much of the world gets enough fresh water right now from desalinization. In a future with less fresh water and rising sea levels, we'll have to put massive energy into desalinization plants to maintain population areas and agriculture.

This has a some downsides, notably that it is energy intensive. We cannot burn fossil fuels to power this process without making climate problems far worse. However there is an answer for this also. Liquid salt thorium nuclear reactors can provide clean, safe and abundant energy.

We have tech that can solve these problems, we just need a sizable investment in getting started.
There's actually another solution that is seldom talked about - undersea freshwater springs. These exist (they are former land springs and exist mainly in limestone soils) and harnessing them and getting the water to land only costs a fraction of the cost of desalination.
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SallyMae wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:18 pm Fresh water is a serious problem, but there is an answer. Much of the world gets enough fresh water right now from desalinization. In a future with less fresh water and rising sea levels, we'll have to put massive energy into desalinization plants to maintain population areas and agriculture.

This has a some downsides, notably that it is energy intensive. We cannot burn fossil fuels to power this process without making climate problems far worse. However there is an answer for this also. Liquid salt thorium nuclear reactors can provide clean, safe and abundant energy.

We have tech that can solve these problems, we just need a sizable investment in getting started.
There's actually another solution that is seldom talked about - undersea freshwater springs. These exist (they are former land springs and exist mainly in limestone soils) and harnessing them and getting the water to land only costs a fraction of the cost of desalination.
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Quorra2.0
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Thelma Harper wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:27 pm
Quorra2.0 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:07 pm
Thelma Harper wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:54 am

When did that begin?
When did which begin? The Saudi lease in AZ was 2015 I believe. Not sure when they started they California purchases but have read a few blips here and there about the company buying up farms in Blythe. The climate conditions have been progressive, ebbing and flowing since the dust bowl that contributed to the Great Depression, with progressively less ebbing the past couple decades.
The lease agreements. Thank you for replying. This is insane.
It is. Their aquifers are low/depleted so they started looking for desert type areas, because that’s the conditions they are more familiar growing in. The alfalfa is grown to feed their cows.
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Quorra2.0
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Honestly it’s complicated. Their lease is for the land, the water is part of the lease but also separate from the lease. So their lease included unlimited usage BUT they are supposed to follow state land trust water conservation. They are also supposed to submit reports on how much they are growing and how much water is being used. This information is used to adjust the annual water cost. The annual water cost is based on gallons used in correlation with the fair market value of the crop being produced and the land used for crops. So in 2015 when the lease was signed there were no crops, they paid 250,000, separate from the lease, for the water. However, since then, they have not paid the adjustments or reported to show whether they are in compliance with water usage conservation. The state annually auctions this water, but because of its location it hasn’t even gone to auction, which it should have, since the lease was signed. Not only is this loss revenue for the state, specifically our schools, but it’s also an unknown loss of resources. I told Dd we need to find out who with the State Land Trust is living large because that’s who’s getting kickbacks to look the other way and not enforce the terms of the lease.

cgd5112 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:48 am Sorry, I meant water rights. I don’t know if that adds to your reply.


Maybe the Saudis figured that since they already coughed up 2 billion dollars for J Kushner, they can use all the water they want.

But on a serious note, I read or heard that they actually bought some water rights. It may be what you wrote about the wells. Do they own/lease any of them?

Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:27 pm No they lease the land from Arizona’s state land trust. The water belongs to the state, not the Saudis. It’s a bit complicated. Fondomonte Is technically in violation of the terms of the lease and now this company is paying 1/6th what it should be paying by lease terms in addition to an unknown amount of water usage as they have refused to disclose and have not paid for. It is puzzling a lot of people why more action isn’t being taken over this especially since we are in a drought. My rights, the state can auction the water from any and all of the 15 wells on the land to other entities or use it for state needs.
cgd5112 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:24 pm Don't the saudis own some property rights in AZ? With the current drought, AZ may have to pay the Saudis for water ..?


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