Should the January 6th rioters get pardons?

Forum rules
Keep News and Politics about News and Politics.

Do not post full articles from other websites. Always link back to the source

Discuss things respectfully and take into account that each person has a different opinion.

Remember that this is a place for everyone to enjoy. Don’t try and run people off of the site. If you are upset with someone then utilize the foe feature.

Report when things come up.

Personal attacks are against guidelines however attacks need to be directed at a member on the forum for it to be against guidelines. Lying is not against guidelines, it’s hard for us to prove someone even did lie.

Once a topic is locked we consider the issue handled and no longer respond to new reports on the topic.
User avatar
Aletheia
Regent
Regent
Posts: 2176
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 8:44 pm
Location: England

Unread post

SouthernIslander wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:05 pm I haven’t seen a lot of Democrats give Pence credit for putting his life at risk by going against Trump to do the right thing
I have seen him being given credit.

Albeit mostly in disbelief that there are still Republican politicians who care about things like duty and the constitution (as opposed to just loudly proclaiming how much they care about those things).
User avatar
SouthernIslander
Queen Mother
Queen Mother
Posts: 9391
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:48 pm
Location: Texassippi

Unread post

Aletheia wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:09 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:05 pm I haven’t seen a lot of Democrats give Pence credit for putting his life at risk by going against Trump to do the right thing
I have seen him being given credit.

Albeit mostly in disbelief that there are still Republican politicians who care about things like duty and the constitution (as opposed to just loudly proclaiming how much they care about those things).
I didn’t say all.

Also, a compliment that includes a backhanded jab really isn’t giving someone credit.
Lemons
Donated
Donated
Princess
Princess
Posts: 11250
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 11:22 pm

Unread post

SouthernIslander wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:23 pm
Lemons wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:18 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:32 pm

I have heard people on the left saying that Pence did not do enough to speak out against Trump’s beef with the election. I don’t remember your stance on it either, so that’s why I said my comment wasn’t directly at you specifically.

No, the left is definitely guilty of hypocrisy too. We’ll get a lot further once both parties realize the the opposing side isn’t the only one who is guilty of this.

This isn’t a competition of which side has the worst rioters. Only difference is one reason is more understandable than the other but the actual act itself is no different.

Burning down a police station is wrong and tearing up the capital is also wrong.
True Pence could have said a little more than he did but he’s prob hoping it all goes away.

Your right it’s not a competition nor is it both sides. That’s why it didn’t make sense that bionic compared them. Reverse it with this narrative - Democrats attack the White House with deadly weapons and try to get at Trump. In the meantime White MAGAs are tearing up cities protesting because they are upset about Democrats passing a bill that will effect them negatively. In this case the Democrats would have done something much more grievous and dangerous. white MAGAs would have been protesting an injustice. Democrats would have been committing treason.

Protests against unfairness or injustice have changed the country for the better. The Boston Tea Party started a revolution. Vietnam protests helped end the war. Civil rights protests started the tear down of Jim Crow laws and brought the start of equality.

BLM was the latest protest about injustice. It became out of control and was too violent but it also started some real change and awareness not unlike the civil rights protests of the 1960’s.

None of these are comparable to Jan 6. A riot where people in charge of the country were willing to make outrageous claims and dangerous lie and a small group of Americans were willing to do their bidding at the expense of a democratically held election. Even if that meant killing elected lawmakers.
For far-left extremists like Antifa was tearing up shit for political clout, not social injustice or else they would have backed off when a large number of the Black community complained about their behavior doing more damage.

All due respect, I don't advise using Jim Crow and The Civil Rights movement to justify a lot of bullshit coming from the left because you don't know enough about it for the argument to stick. Civil Rights generation WAS NOT going to protests to pick fights and terrorizing people over who they voted for while wearing masks avoid accountability. They weren't inserting themselves into battles uninvited and making shit worse. That is not what fighting for freedom looked like and it's not what got Jim Crow overturned.

Malcolm X started calling out the left on this decades ago and the behavior has gotten much worse. I do not speak for all minorities but exploiting oppression for political clout is just as bad as what happened on January 6. Democrats have got to get out of thinking that they are the lesser of two evils and that makes them better than the right because it doesn't.

I fully agree that rioting is the voice of the unheard, but it was still way too many who ran with that and took it way too far.
You bought into the antifa story that MAGA used to try and deflect the violence caused by their White Supremacist violence at the BLM and January 6. You’re taking some small time fistfights between people who claim to be anarchists and White Supremacists and turning them in “equals”. Are you kidding? And the claims that Jan 6 was antifa dressed as Trump supporters was widely claimed in right wing news. All lies.

When discussing major protests in American history that changed the country, why would I skip the Civil Rights protests? And Malcom X was an agitator who thought violence was the way to go. What does he have to do with anything?

And currently in this time in history Democrats are the lesser of two evils. It was the state of Texas that held a Conservative Political Action Committee where the guest of honor speaker was authoritarian leader of Hungary Victor Orban.

Orban wants Muslims banned from Europe. He said in a speech “ It’s fine for Europeans to mingle with one another, Orban said, but it’s not alright for them to mix with others — non-Europeans, that is — because “we do not want to become peoples of mixed race.”
A few years before that he claimed “ We (Hungarians) do not want our own color, traditions and national culture to be mixed with those of others."

Orban is a role model to Trump and his followers along with Bolsonaro and Lukashenko and silently with Putin. All men who don’t believe in individual freedoms. If you can find something as equally disturbing and dangerous going on with liberals I’ll agree with you. But I don’t even think they have any organizations like CPAC?

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/05/a-chri ... pac-texas/
User avatar
Aletheia
Regent
Regent
Posts: 2176
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 8:44 pm
Location: England

Unread post

SouthernIslander wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:00 am Also, a compliment that includes a backhanded jab really isn’t giving someone credit.
I take your point.

Though with American politics being as polarised it has been over the last 10 years, I think that's probably the best you're likely to get from either side of the political spectrum when talking about anyone from the other side while not actually at a funeral.
User avatar
SouthernIslander
Queen Mother
Queen Mother
Posts: 9391
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:48 pm
Location: Texassippi

Unread post

Aletheia wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:08 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:00 am Also, a compliment that includes a backhanded jab really isn’t giving someone credit.
I take your point.

Though with American politics being as polarised it has been over the last 10 years, I think that's probably the best you're likely to get from either side of the political spectrum when talking about anyone from the other side while not actually at a funeral.
Not really. I hate Pence's politics, but it really wasn't that hard giving him credit for pushing back on Trump without throwing an insult in there.
User avatar
SouthernIslander
Queen Mother
Queen Mother
Posts: 9391
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:48 pm
Location: Texassippi

Unread post

Lemons wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:05 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:23 pm
Lemons wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:18 pm

True Pence could have said a little more than he did but he’s prob hoping it all goes away.

Your right it’s not a competition nor is it both sides. That’s why it didn’t make sense that bionic compared them. Reverse it with this narrative - Democrats attack the White House with deadly weapons and try to get at Trump. In the meantime White MAGAs are tearing up cities protesting because they are upset about Democrats passing a bill that will effect them negatively. In this case the Democrats would have done something much more grievous and dangerous. white MAGAs would have been protesting an injustice. Democrats would have been committing treason.

Protests against unfairness or injustice have changed the country for the better. The Boston Tea Party started a revolution. Vietnam protests helped end the war. Civil rights protests started the tear down of Jim Crow laws and brought the start of equality.

BLM was the latest protest about injustice. It became out of control and was too violent but it also started some real change and awareness not unlike the civil rights protests of the 1960’s.

None of these are comparable to Jan 6. A riot where people in charge of the country were willing to make outrageous claims and dangerous lie and a small group of Americans were willing to do their bidding at the expense of a democratically held election. Even if that meant killing elected lawmakers.
For far-left extremists like Antifa was tearing up shit for political clout, not social injustice or else they would have backed off when a large number of the Black community complained about their behavior doing more damage.

All due respect, I don't advise using Jim Crow and The Civil Rights movement to justify a lot of bullshit coming from the left because you don't know enough about it for the argument to stick. Civil Rights generation WAS NOT going to protests to pick fights and terrorizing people over who they voted for while wearing masks avoid accountability. They weren't inserting themselves into battles uninvited and making shit worse. That is not what fighting for freedom looked like and it's not what got Jim Crow overturned.

Malcolm X started calling out the left on this decades ago and the behavior has gotten much worse. I do not speak for all minorities but exploiting oppression for political clout is just as bad as what happened on January 6. Democrats have got to get out of thinking that they are the lesser of two evils and that makes them better than the right because it doesn't.

I fully agree that rioting is the voice of the unheard, but it was still way too many who ran with that and took it way too far.
You bought into the antifa story that MAGA used to try and deflect the violence caused by their White Supremacist violence at the BLM and January 6. You’re taking some small time fistfights between people who claim to be anarchists and White Supremacists and turning them in “equals”. Are you kidding? And the claims that Jan 6 was antifa dressed as Trump supporters was widely claimed in right wing news. All lies.

When discussing major protests in American history that changed the country, why would I skip the Civil Rights protests? And Malcom X was an agitator who thought violence was the way to go. What does he have to do with anything?

And currently in this time in history Democrats are the lesser of two evils. It was the state of Texas that held a Conservative Political Action Committee where the guest of honor speaker was authoritarian leader of Hungary Victor Orban.

Orban wants Muslims banned from Europe. He said in a speech “ It’s fine for Europeans to mingle with one another, Orban said, but it’s not alright for them to mix with others — non-Europeans, that is — because “we do not want to become peoples of mixed race.”
A few years before that he claimed “ We (Hungarians) do not want our own color, traditions and national culture to be mixed with those of others."

Orban is a role model to Trump and his followers along with Bolsonaro and Lukashenko and silently with Putin. All men who don’t believe in individual freedoms. If you can find something as equally disturbing and dangerous going on with liberals I’ll agree with you. But I don’t even think they have any organizations like CPAC?

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/05/a-chri ... pac-texas/
I never said Antifa was involved on January 6 but everybody ain't lying on them either.

You mentioned the Civil Rights Movement and Malcolm X will always have more to do with that conversation then you ever will. I mentioned it because I wanted to see your response to a Black Civil Rights leader who doesn't align with your political leaning. Your response was pretty much minimizing the far left's behavior to a petty "fist fight" and deemed Malcolm X a violent agitator who has no place in a conversation about movement that he helped innovate.

Malcolm X knew he was putting his life on the line when he publicly held himself and Nation of Islam accountable before leaving. His racial views drastically changed after his trip to Mecca and why he extended the olive branch to MLK before he was assassinated. Also, his belief in the use of force was to fight severe oppression, not assault people over who they voted for. If he can hold himself accountable in that environment...asking Democrats to hold far left extremists accountable for using Black people as pawns to justify violence is NOT too much to ask for.

I disagree. If Democrats were seen as the lesser of two evils with confidence at this point in history, Hillary would have won that first election and Biden wouldn't have barely won the second.
hotspice58
Regent
Regent
Posts: 3505
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:56 am

Unread post

Hillary didn’t win because Trump kept the lies about e-mails going and people believed it. This is also why Trump won.
User avatar
SouthernIslander
Queen Mother
Queen Mother
Posts: 9391
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:48 pm
Location: Texassippi

Unread post

hotspice58 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:50 am Hillary didn’t win because Trump kept the lies about e-mails going and people believed it. This is also why Trump won.
To an extent. IMO.

I voted for Hillary but the truth is, a lot of people didn’t vote at all in protest because they didn’t like Hillary based on her actions
User avatar
Aletheia
Regent
Regent
Posts: 2176
Joined: Mon May 21, 2018 8:44 pm
Location: England

Unread post

SouthernIslander wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:31 pm
Aletheia wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:08 pm Though with American politics being as polarised it has been over the last 10 years, I think that's probably the best you're likely to get from either side of the political spectrum when talking about anyone from the other side while not actually at a funeral.
Not really. I hate Pence's politics, but it really wasn't that hard giving him credit for pushing back on Trump without throwing an insult in there.
I stand by my prediction that the left wing is going to be reluctant to give him more than grudging credit.

Have a read of the comments section of these two MSNBC videos:


User avatar
SouthernIslander
Queen Mother
Queen Mother
Posts: 9391
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:48 pm
Location: Texassippi

Unread post

Aletheia wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:44 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:31 pm
Aletheia wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:08 pm Though with American politics being as polarised it has been over the last 10 years, I think that's probably the best you're likely to get from either side of the political spectrum when talking about anyone from the other side while not actually at a funeral.
Not really. I hate Pence's politics, but it really wasn't that hard giving him credit for pushing back on Trump without throwing an insult in there.
I stand by my prediction that the left wing is going to be reluctant to give him more than grudging credit.

Have a read of the comments section of these two MSNBC videos:


Nothing really to predict when the grudging credit already happened and I’ve seen a lot of the social media comments on the topic to gauge the temperament.

I really don’t care if people feel like he didn’t do enough as long as it’s consistent. It’s the passive aggressive compliments/insults and people who are being hypocritical about it is what I don’t care for.
Locked Previous topicNext topic