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Momto2boys973
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Since no one else has answered this question, maybe you’d like to do so. If it’s about “criticizing Israel”, then why are JEWS around the world being attacked, targeted and killed every time Israel starts defending itself from Hamas’ attacks? Why is it that you see people carrying the Palestinian flag making Jew hating remarks, not speaking against Israel but against Jews? Can you really blame Jews when they’re being attacked by people claiming they’re just “disagreeing with Israel”?
I’m sorry, but as long as these people are the ones refusing to make the distinction between Israel and Jews, I’ll refuse to make the distinction between anti-Israel and Jew hater. It annoys you that people who are against Israel get labeled as anti-Semitic? Well, it annoys me that because some people have certain beliefs about the Israeli government that my fellow Jews get attacked and I worry every day about my son living in America. I’m holding off for now, but if things continue to get worse I may have to bring him home.
And no, no school or hospital was destroyed. Even though Hamas uses those types of buildings as their launch sites hoping Israel would attack and they can play victim.
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Frau Holle wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:41 am Who gave Israel to Jewish people again? Was it the Palestinians that were living there, or did they not really have a choice in the matter?

Golda Meir was an extremely prejudice person. She literally tried to paint the picture of people being driven from their homes as soulless people who don’t even love their children as much as they love violence. It was their homes being taken.

And yes, a third party did coin the term, and Arabs are included in the definition.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:24 am Exactly!!! And that’s where your assessment of the situation is totally mistaken! Israel has never, ever, EVER had a problem with Palestinians having their own country. They took the little piece of land GIVEN to them and started building a country. If the Palestinians had done the same, there wouldn’t be a problem because Israel never objected to Palestine existing. A different tune from the Palestinians who always rejected the notion of a Jewish state.
Netanyahu himself said it: “If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'‎”. Golda Meir said: “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate ours.”
So it’s not Israel the one trying to eliminate the other side. I mean, the Israeli Army is probably second best in the world after the U.S. If Israel believed that Palestine shouldn’t exist, it wouldn’t. Israel could very well erase Palestine off the map is it we’re inclined to do so. But Israel isn’t the one picking fights and wanting to annihilate the other side.

And if these people didn’t have a religious prejudice, Jews wouldn’t be suffering attacks all over the world over Israel defending itself. And in fact, no one would be debating Israel’s right to defend itself with full force. Like I asked you on another thread, if a country threw 4,000 rocket missiles at the U.S would you criticize America if it retaliated and defended its territory and its people with all they got?

And as for the definition... it’s not the Jews that coined the term. So no, it’s not about “us vs them” as if we’re deserving of the title and they aren’t. Third parties coined the term. But again, I’m more than happy to use “Jew hater” if you think that term is more fair.

Honestly I think both sides committed atrocities. It’s a damned Gordian knot to me and probably even to Palestine and Israel. It also annoys me that if someone criticizes Israel they might be seen as anti-semetic. Which brings me to AOC and maybe BLM. I don’t know what they’ve said but Most likely some of them are just angry at Israel and what The hell did anyone expect from Omar? Love and joy? Didn’t a hospital and a school get destroyed?
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If it’s actual Palestinians committing the violence they’re attempting to bring a war outside of the area it’s actually going on and they equate Jewish people to Israel because that’s what their upbringing has taught them. It’s not at all ok, and they need to be arrested and charged.

If it’s anyone else attacking someone they’re just racist/prejudice.


Now comes the rest of us- who see it as two warring countries and view the political actions with judgements. We will never go around attacking innocent people for no reason.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:02 pm Since no one else has answered this question, maybe you’d like to do so. If it’s about “criticizing Israel”, then why are JEWS around the world being attacked, targeted and killed every time Israel starts defending itself from Hamas’ attacks? Why is it that you see people carrying the Palestinian flag making Jew hating remarks, not speaking against Israel but against Jews? Can you really blame Jews when they’re being attacked by people claiming they’re just “disagreeing with Israel”?
I’m sorry, but as long as these people are the ones refusing to make the distinction between Israel and Jews, I’ll refuse to make the distinction between anti-Israel and Jew hater. It annoys you that people who are against Israel get labeled as anti-Semitic? Well, it annoys me that because some people have certain beliefs about the Israeli government that my fellow Jews get attacked and I worry every day about my son living in America. I’m holding off for now, but if things continue to get worse I may have to bring him home.
And no, no school or hospital was destroyed. Even though Hamas uses those types of buildings as their launch sites hoping Israel would attack and they can play victim.
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Frau Holle wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:41 am Who gave Israel to Jewish people again? Was it the Palestinians that were living there, or did they not really have a choice in the matter?

Golda Meir was an extremely prejudice person. She literally tried to paint the picture of people being driven from their homes as soulless people who don’t even love their children as much as they love violence. It was their homes being taken.

And yes, a third party did coin the term, and Arabs are included in the definition.

Honestly I think both sides committed atrocities. It’s a damned Gordian knot to me and probably even to Palestine and Israel. It also annoys me that if someone criticizes Israel they might be seen as anti-semetic. Which brings me to AOC and maybe BLM. I don’t know what they’ve said but Most likely some of them are just angry at Israel and what The hell did anyone expect from Omar? Love and joy? Didn’t a hospital and a school get destroyed?
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This is the bottom line of why Palestinian deaths are higher

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Frau Holle
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No, that is the same type of propaganda artwork that we see in almost every war that aims to paint one side as good, and the other side as evil.

They love their children just as much as Israelis love their children.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:12 pm This is the bottom line of why Palestinian deaths are higher

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Frau Holle wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:56 pm
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Frau Holle wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:41 am Who gave Israel to Jewish people again? Was it the Palestinians that were living there, or did they not really have a choice in the matter?

Golda Meir was an extremely prejudice person. She literally tried to paint the picture of people being driven from their homes as soulless people who don’t even love their children as much as they love violence. It was their homes being taken.

And yes, a third party did coin the term, and Arabs are included in the definition.

Honestly I think both sides committed atrocities. It’s a damned Gordian knot to me and probably even to Palestine and Israel. It also annoys me that if someone criticizes Israel they might be seen as anti-semetic. Which brings me to AOC and maybe BLM. I don’t know what they’ve said but Most likely some of them are just angry at Israel and what The hell did anyone expect from Omar? Love and joy? Didn’t a hospital and a school get destroyed?
Yes, both military sides against each other in a deadly battle, but thousands and thousands of innocent people on both sides caught in the crossfire.

I don’t believe either military when they try to say everyone on the other side of the line is evil.
Even Bernie Sanders is criticizing the Israel government. I doubt he’s anti-Semitic. I agree both sides need to get it together and move forward. And if AOC says Israel is apartheid well that may or may not be true. But it’s not anti-Semitic. That’s just her opinion about a flawed country, just like we and all the others are. BLM are with the people of Palestine and why not? They say in their press release they’ve got traditions of the Black Panthers supporting activism there. I don’t agree. I think they should remain neutral but nowhere have they said they hate Jews. This sounds like they hate Israel’s actions against Palestine. Now if they go burn down the nearest Jewish temple then yes there is a problem. The rest of the people depicted I can’t say but the cartoon is propaganda.

In short I agree with you. Both sides need to reign in their terrorist groups, come together and say we need to end this suffering we are going to both our people and each other’s.
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:02 pm Since no one else has answered this question, maybe you’d like to do so. If it’s about “criticizing Israel”, then why are JEWS around the world being attacked, targeted and killed every time Israel starts defending itself from Hamas’ attacks? Why is it that you see people carrying the Palestinian flag making Jew hating remarks, not speaking against Israel but against Jews? Can you really blame Jews when they’re being attacked by people claiming they’re just “disagreeing with Israel”?
I’m sorry, but as long as these people are the ones refusing to make the distinction between Israel and Jews, I’ll refuse to make the distinction between anti-Israel and Jew hater. It annoys you that people who are against Israel get labeled as anti-Semitic? Well, it annoys me that because some people have certain beliefs about the Israeli government that my fellow Jews get attacked and I worry every day about my son living in America. I’m holding off for now, but if things continue to get worse I may have to bring him home.
And no, no school or hospital was destroyed. Even though Hamas uses those types of buildings as their launch sites hoping Israel would attack and they can play victim.
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Frau Holle wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:41 am Who gave Israel to Jewish people again? Was it the Palestinians that were living there, or did they not really have a choice in the matter?

Golda Meir was an extremely prejudice person. She literally tried to paint the picture of people being driven from their homes as soulless people who don’t even love their children as much as they love violence. It was their homes being taken.

And yes, a third party did coin the term, and Arabs are included in the definition.

Honestly I think both sides committed atrocities. It’s a damned Gordian knot to me and probably even to Palestine and Israel. It also annoys me that if someone criticizes Israel they might be seen as anti-semetic. Which brings me to AOC and maybe BLM. I don’t know what they’ve said but Most likely some of them are just angry at Israel and what The hell did anyone expect from Omar? Love and joy? Didn’t a hospital and a school get destroyed?
Probably for the same reason some targeted Muslim mosques after 9-11 or after the bombing of the Boston marathon which I think was a Islamic terrorist. Or why America has Japanese internment camps during WWII. And why my Italian great grandfather was considered a hostile alien during WWII. Asians were blamed for Covid. The actions of a few affect everyone of that ethnicity or religion. It’s stupid af but how it is and it needs to stop. It’s why I’m glad Sanders criticized Israel. He’s Jewish and maybe hearing him will make people realize one can be Jewish, American or whatever and not like their country’s actions. Personally I think both sides hold blame and both sides have needs that must be considered. Both need to reign in their terrorist groups and work together. I just don’t think they ever will.
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People targeted Muslims because the attackers were using Islam as their reason. Every single example you gave was of people generalizing a specific group. It was the misconception that everyone in that group should pay. So why not attack Israelis then? Why push it to Jews? If you’re just “disagreeing with Israeli politics” then why target Jews that aren’t even in Israel? That means that it’s those who are doing the attacking mg the ones not being able to make a distinction, then why should those of us that are being attacked have that consideration?
If you don’t want people against Israel to be labeled as antisemitic then maybe what you should be asking is that that themselves stop vilifying Jews in general over the actions of a couple of politicians. But when I see people all over the world with Palestinian flags saying “f**k Jews!”, “kill their sons and rape their daughters!” you really can’t be annoyed at me for realizing that antisemitism is hiding so well behind the “commendable” position of disagreeing with Israel’s politics.
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:45 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:02 pm Since no one else has answered this question, maybe you’d like to do so. If it’s about “criticizing Israel”, then why are JEWS around the world being attacked, targeted and killed every time Israel starts defending itself from Hamas’ attacks? Why is it that you see people carrying the Palestinian flag making Jew hating remarks, not speaking against Israel but against Jews? Can you really blame Jews when they’re being attacked by people claiming they’re just “disagreeing with Israel”?
I’m sorry, but as long as these people are the ones refusing to make the distinction between Israel and Jews, I’ll refuse to make the distinction between anti-Israel and Jew hater. It annoys you that people who are against Israel get labeled as anti-Semitic? Well, it annoys me that because some people have certain beliefs about the Israeli government that my fellow Jews get attacked and I worry every day about my son living in America. I’m holding off for now, but if things continue to get worse I may have to bring him home.
And no, no school or hospital was destroyed. Even though Hamas uses those types of buildings as their launch sites hoping Israel would attack and they can play victim.
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm

Honestly I think both sides committed atrocities. It’s a damned Gordian knot to me and probably even to Palestine and Israel. It also annoys me that if someone criticizes Israel they might be seen as anti-semetic. Which brings me to AOC and maybe BLM. I don’t know what they’ve said but Most likely some of them are just angry at Israel and what The hell did anyone expect from Omar? Love and joy? Didn’t a hospital and a school get destroyed?
Probably for the same reason everyone targeted Muslim mosques after 9-11 or after the bombing of the Boston marathon which I think was a Islamic terrorist. Or why America has Japanese internment camps during WWII. And why my Italian great grandfather was considered a hostile alien during WWII. The actions of a few affect everyone of that ethnicity or religion. It’s stupid af but how it is and it needs to stop. It’s why I’m glad Sanders criticized Israel. He’s Jewish and maybe hearing him will make people realize one can be Jewish, American or whatever and not like their country’s actions. Personally I think both sides hold blame and both sides have needs that must be considered. Both need to reign in their terrorist groups and work together. I just don’t think they ever will.
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:54 pm People targeted Muslims because the attackers were using Islam as their reason. Every single example you gave was of people generalizing a specific group. It was the misconception that everyone in that group should pay. So why not attack Israelis then? Why push it to Jews? If you’re just “disagreeing with Israeli politics” then why target Jews that aren’t even in Israel? That means that it’s those who are doing the attacking mg the ones not being able to make a distinction, then why should those of us that are being attacked have that consideration?
If you don’t want people against Israel to be labeled as antisemitic then maybe what you should be asking is that that themselves stop vilifying Jews in general over the actions of a couple of politicians. But when I see people all over the world with Palestinian flags saying “f**k Jews!”, “kill their sons and rape their daughters!” you really can’t be annoyed at me for realizing that antisemitism is hiding so well behind the “commendable” position of disagreeing with Israel’s politics.
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:45 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:02 pm Since no one else has answered this question, maybe you’d like to do so. If it’s about “criticizing Israel”, then why are JEWS around the world being attacked, targeted and killed every time Israel starts defending itself from Hamas’ attacks? Why is it that you see people carrying the Palestinian flag making Jew hating remarks, not speaking against Israel but against Jews? Can you really blame Jews when they’re being attacked by people claiming they’re just “disagreeing with Israel”?
I’m sorry, but as long as these people are the ones refusing to make the distinction between Israel and Jews, I’ll refuse to make the distinction between anti-Israel and Jew hater. It annoys you that people who are against Israel get labeled as anti-Semitic? Well, it annoys me that because some people have certain beliefs about the Israeli government that my fellow Jews get attacked and I worry every day about my son living in America. I’m holding off for now, but if things continue to get worse I may have to bring him home.
And no, no school or hospital was destroyed. Even though Hamas uses those types of buildings as their launch sites hoping Israel would attack and they can play victim.

Probably for the same reason everyone targeted Muslim mosques after 9-11 or after the bombing of the Boston marathon which I think was a Islamic terrorist. Or why America has Japanese internment camps during WWII. And why my Italian great grandfather was considered a hostile alien during WWII. The actions of a few affect everyone of that ethnicity or religion. It’s stupid af but how it is and it needs to stop. It’s why I’m glad Sanders criticized Israel. He’s Jewish and maybe hearing him will make people realize one can be Jewish, American or whatever and not like their country’s actions. Personally I think both sides hold blame and both sides have needs that must be considered. Both need to reign in their terrorist groups and work together. I just don’t think they ever will.
People targeted American Muslims because the 9-11 terrorists were Muslim. America interred Japanese Americans who probably were appalled their home country bombed Pearl Harbor.

Edit sorry didn’t finish. My point is what’s the difference? People have always treated ethnic groups as the enemy when one of theirs acts badly or cruelly. And that’s awful. But is that a reason to ignore Palestine, Israel or any other country if we don’t like their acts of war? No. But we should say the actions of a country’s leaders doesn’t mean their people approve and therefore should be targeted with hate crimes.
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:54 pm People targeted Muslims because the attackers were using Islam as their reason. Every single example you gave was of people generalizing a specific group. It was the misconception that everyone in that group should pay. So why not attack Israelis then? Why push it to Jews? If you’re just “disagreeing with Israeli politics” then why target Jews that aren’t even in Israel? That means that it’s those who are doing the attacking mg the ones not being able to make a distinction, then why should those of us that are being attacked have that consideration?
If you don’t want people against Israel to be labeled as antisemitic then maybe what you should be asking is that that themselves stop vilifying Jews in general over the actions of a couple of politicians. But when I see people all over the world with Palestinian flags saying “f**k Jews!”, “kill their sons and rape their daughters!” you really can’t be annoyed at me for realizing that antisemitism is hiding so well behind the “commendable” position of disagreeing with Israel’s politics.
Pjmm wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:45 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:02 pm Since no one else has answered this question, maybe you’d like to do so. If it’s about “criticizing Israel”, then why are JEWS around the world being attacked, targeted and killed every time Israel starts defending itself from Hamas’ attacks? Why is it that you see people carrying the Palestinian flag making Jew hating remarks, not speaking against Israel but against Jews? Can you really blame Jews when they’re being attacked by people claiming they’re just “disagreeing with Israel”?
I’m sorry, but as long as these people are the ones refusing to make the distinction between Israel and Jews, I’ll refuse to make the distinction between anti-Israel and Jew hater. It annoys you that people who are against Israel get labeled as anti-Semitic? Well, it annoys me that because some people have certain beliefs about the Israeli government that my fellow Jews get attacked and I worry every day about my son living in America. I’m holding off for now, but if things continue to get worse I may have to bring him home.
And no, no school or hospital was destroyed. Even though Hamas uses those types of buildings as their launch sites hoping Israel would attack and they can play victim.

Probably for the same reason everyone targeted Muslim mosques after 9-11 or after the bombing of the Boston marathon which I think was a Islamic terrorist. Or why America has Japanese internment camps during WWII. And why my Italian great grandfather was considered a hostile alien during WWII. The actions of a few affect everyone of that ethnicity or religion. It’s stupid af but how it is and it needs to stop. It’s why I’m glad Sanders criticized Israel. He’s Jewish and maybe hearing him will make people realize one can be Jewish, American or whatever and not like their country’s actions. Personally I think both sides hold blame and both sides have needs that must be considered. Both need to reign in their terrorist groups and work together. I just don’t think they ever will.
I’ve been thinking of your question and the only answer I’ve got is that people think to Jews Israel is the promised land, their true homeland. So Israel right or wrong to Jews. I mean America thought if you were Italian during WWII perhaps you identified with Mussolini. Idk but maybe that’s why they target Jews. I’m sure it’s not just what Israel is doing. The anti-Semitics will take any excuse to unleash their hatred. I’m saying for me personally I don’t agree with Israel. Same with some American politicians. We could be wrong but it’s not anti-Semitism for us. That’s all. I understand the whole thing is too difficult to fully address here.
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Actually, anti-Judaism is the term that was used for referring to hating Jews. It was a Jewish scholar who coined the terms antisemitism and antisemitic and did encompass ALL Semitic people. The shift to narrowing it down is actually very disgusting as this was done to allow for “hate” towards other Semitics without having that icky negativity of being labeled antisemitic, which by that time did carried negativity as it should. The thing is prejudice is prejudice regardless, but we, general we, justify it, look the other way, or change words to mean what we want so we don’t feel as bad about it.

I get it though, your heritage and culture has caused you to have certain biases. You only see what you have been taught to see, what you choose to see. We all do that. No one can claim they don’t have biases or prejudices unless they have absolutely no opinions or thoughts about anything.

Ask yourself this though, if things are all the Palestinians fault and no blame on Israelis, why are the Rabbis for human rights trying to end the mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied territory? There are groups of Israeli and Palestinians, such as Combatants for Peace, Tomorrow’s women, the coalition of women for peace who see blame on both sides. Israelis and Palestinians come together through these organizations to speak out against injustices and to seek peaceful co-existence.

The violence is not ok. It’s not ok that Jewish people are being attacked and beaten. It’s not ok that Palestinians are being attacked and beaten.

Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:21 am Let’s not nitpick at word origins. By NOW, the word “antisemitic” in pretty much every language means someone who hates Jews.
Now, if you think it’s better we can start calling these people “Jew haters”, I don’t mind since that’s what they are.
Frau Holle wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 10:07 am What?
Two of the characters you have depicted up there are semites themselves.
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