Kathy Bates on MeToo: 'In my day, if you went to a guy’s hotel room, you knew why you were going'

[moviestar]

YES

Absolutely. Men should take the responsibility if they try to convince someone to have S*x with them. But does that involve rape charges?
I wonder if the roles were reversed if it would be looked at the same. Let’s say a young man who is 19 years old hasn’t had S*x yet. He is a rare young man in today’s time and wants to wait for marriage. He has a girlfriend of the same age. She wants to have S*x. She starts in on him with her insecurities. “ why don’t you want to have S*x with me am I not pretty enough?” Then she says “ if you love me you will have S*x with me”. He doesn’t want her to think he doesn’t love her and he doesn’t want to risk her leaving him so he has S*x with her. Did she rape him?

Yes, yes, yes. I’ve said it very clearly several times now, I cannot possibly simplify it further. Coerced consent is not consent. S*x without consent is rape. Even if it’s a situation you would have handled differently, even if you turn your head and squint.

when do men take responsibility for forcing S*x on people who don’t want it? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young men that they are responsible for their abusive actions toward others? Only have S*x with people who want to? make good choices?

This is what a site I found said is considered coercion...



My problem with the whole coercion argument is if a boyfriend says “ if you love me you will have S*x with me”. She doesn’t want him to feel unloved so she has S*x with him. Now he’s a rapist.
A guy at a party calls a girl a prude for not wanting to have S*x. She doesn’t want to be looked at as a prude so she has S*x with him. He is now a rapist.
When do women take responsibility for their bad decisions? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young girls to have a voice and to use it. Stand their group. Make good choices?

[BionicBunny]

Lol well at least you are consistent .
Good talk. We don’t agree but it was a good talk.

YES

Absolutely. Men should take the responsibility if they try to convince someone to have S*x with them. But does that involve rape charges?
I wonder if the roles were reversed if it would be looked at the same. Let’s say a young man who is 19 years old hasn’t had S*x yet. He is a rare young man in today’s time and wants to wait for marriage. He has a girlfriend of the same age. She wants to have S*x. She starts in on him with her insecurities. “ why don’t you want to have S*x with me am I not pretty enough?” Then she says “ if you love me you will have S*x with me”. He doesn’t want her to think he doesn’t love her and he doesn’t want to risk her leaving him so he has S*x with her. Did she rape him?

Yes, yes, yes. I’ve said it very clearly several times now, I cannot possibly simplify it further. Coerced consent is not consent. S*x without consent is rape. Even if it’s a situation you would have handled differently, even if you turn your head and squint.

when do men take responsibility for forcing S*x on people who don’t want it? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young men that they are responsible for their abusive actions toward others? Only have S*x with people who want to? make good choices?

[WellPreserved]

Yes, yes, yes. I’ve said it very clearly several times now, I cannot possibly simplify it further. Coerced consent is not consent. S*x without consent is rape. Even if it’s a situation you would have handled differently, even if you turn your head and squint.

when do men take responsibility for forcing S*x on people who don’t want it? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young men that they are responsible for their abusive actions toward others? Only have S*x with people who want to? make good choices?

This is what a site I found said is considered coercion...



My problem with the whole coercion argument is if a boyfriend says “ if you love me you will have S*x with me”. She doesn’t want him to feel unloved so she has S*x with him. Now he’s a rapist.
A guy at a party calls a girl a prude for not wanting to have S*x. She doesn’t want to be looked at as a prude so she has S*x with him. He is now a rapist.
When do women take responsibility for their bad decisions? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young girls to have a voice and to use it. Stand their group. Make good choices?

Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards.

Sexual coercion is considered rape in most states. You might not agree with it, but legally it is rape. Please make sure your sons and daughters know this.

[moviestar]

Rape is a legal term that is defined in Massachusetts by three elements: penetration of any orifice by any object; force or threat of force; and against the will of the victim or without consent. Consent is informed, freely and actively, given mutually understandable words or actions which indicate a willingness to participate in mutually agreed upon sexual activity. Consent may never be given by minors (in Massachusetts, those not yet 16 years of age), mentally disabled persons, and those who are incapacitated as a result of alcohol or other drug consumption (voluntary or involuntary) or those who are unconscious, unaware or otherwise physically helpless. Consent cannot be given in situations involving coercion, threats, intimidation, or physical force.

Sexual Coercion:

Sexual coercion lies on the continuum of sexual violence. For many individuals, understanding what is meant by sexual coercion is difficult and confusing. Sexual coercion involves the act of using psychological/emotional pressure, alcohol, drugs, or force to engage in sexual contact with a person against his or her will. It often involves persistent attempts to have sexual contact after the other person has already refused (post refusal persistence). Rather than through physical force, persuasion through psychological/emotional pressure is often the tactic of sexual coercion utilized by the person trying to make sexual contact with someone who is refusing that contact. Sexual coercion by design of the person seeking the sexual contact is often subtle, but it is highly manipulative, cunning and often directed at possible vulnerabilities of the intended victim. Many individuals erroneously interpret sexual coercion as “joking”, flirtation, or innocent behavior, but it is a type of sexual violence utilized to obtain sexual contact with a person who is not willing and does not give permission.


https://www.umassd.edu/sexualviolence/definitions/


Coercion:

Coercion is a tactic used by perpetrators to intimidate, trick or force someone to have S*x with him/her without physical force.
Coercion is an issue of power and control.
A perpetrator who uses coercive tactics knows that his or her victim neither wants nor enjoys this sexual interaction.
Assailants use many forms of coercion, threats, and manipulation to rape including alcohol and drugs. Alcohol, Rohypnol, and other drugs are often used to incapacitate victims.
Men who have committed sexual assault also frequently report getting their victim drunk as a way of making it easier to talk or force him or her into having S*x (Abbey, McAuslan, and Ross, 1998).

https://sapac.umich.edu/article/definin ... -assault-1

Yes, yes, yes. I’ve said it very clearly several times now, I cannot possibly simplify it further. Coerced consent is not consent. S*x without consent is rape. Even if it’s a situation you would have handled differently, even if you turn your head and squint.

when do men take responsibility for forcing S*x on people who don’t want it? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young men that they are responsible for their abusive actions toward others? Only have S*x with people who want to? make good choices?

This is what a site I found said is considered coercion...



My problem with the whole coercion argument is if a boyfriend says “ if you love me you will have S*x with me”. She doesn’t want him to feel unloved so she has S*x with him. Now he’s a rapist.
A guy at a party calls a girl a prude for not wanting to have S*x. She doesn’t want to be looked at as a prude so she has S*x with him. He is now a rapist.
When do women take responsibility for their bad decisions? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young girls to have a voice and to use it. Stand their group. Make good choices?

Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards.

[Valentina327]

Yes, yes, yes. I’ve said it very clearly several times now, I cannot possibly simplify it further. Coerced consent is not consent. S*x without consent is rape. Even if it’s a situation you would have handled differently, even if you turn your head and squint.

when do men take responsibility for forcing S*x on people who don’t want it? Shouldn’t we be teaching our young men that they are responsible for their abusive actions toward others? Only have S*x with people who want to? make good choices?

Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards.

Sexual coercion is considered rape in most states. You might not agree with it, but legally it is rape. Please make sure your sons and daughters know this.

I've taught them personal responsibility, to be a leader and not a follower, and to stand their ground if someone is trying to get you to do something you know you shouldn't do or don't want to do. So we're all good over here.

[WellPreserved]

Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards.

Sexual coercion is considered rape in most states. You might not agree with it, but legally it is rape. Please make sure your sons and daughters know this.

I've taught them personal responsibility, to be a leader and not a follower, and to stand their ground if someone is trying to get you to do something you know you shouldn't do or don't want to do. So we're all good over here.

"Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards."

Honestly, I would be concerned if my son or daughter were dating someone who was brought up believing that coercion is not rape.

[moviestar]

There’s a lot of misogyny in that post that would concern me if my child was dating someone with that kind of upbringing

Sexual coercion is considered rape in most states. You might not agree with it, but legally it is rape. Please make sure your sons and daughters know this.

I've taught them personal responsibility, to be a leader and not a follower, and to stand their ground if someone is trying to get you to do something you know you shouldn't do or don't want to do. So we're all good over here.

"Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards."

Honestly, I would be concerned if my son or daughter were dating someone who was brought up believing that coercion is not rape.

[Valentina327]

Sexual coercion is considered rape in most states. You might not agree with it, but legally it is rape. Please make sure your sons and daughters know this.

I've taught them personal responsibility, to be a leader and not a follower, and to stand their ground if someone is trying to get you to do something you know you shouldn't do or don't want to do. So we're all good over here.

"Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards."

Honestly, I would be concerned if my son or daughter were dating someone who was brought up believing that coercion is not rape.

Anyone can say anything, which comes under the heading of coercion. That doesn't mean you have to agree to it. This is called personal responsibility.

How do you determine coercion? Where do you draw the line? If a guy says "oh, come" twice and the female says no, is that coercion? How many times can he ask? What is the magic number? What are the magic words? What's acceptable that's NOT coercion?

I'd be MUCH more concerned about dating someone who thought that you could say words to them and they'd feel justified in filing rape charges against you. That is absolutely frightening.

[moviestar]

Once. “do you want to have S*x? “no.” “okay.” Easy Peasy. If someone says no, accept that. If you continue pushing after a no you are entering coercion territory. Why would you want to have S*x with someone you had to harass into it anyway? teach your kids that no means no and they won’t have to worry about it.

I've taught them personal responsibility, to be a leader and not a follower, and to stand their ground if someone is trying to get you to do something you know you shouldn't do or don't want to do. So we're all good over here.

"Coercing someone is absolutely not rape. I don't know how you can keep insisting it is. Just because you're weak minded and allow yourself to be talked into things you really don't want to do, you're not a victim of rape. You're easily led and lack self confidence. The other person is a manipulative asshole.

But manipulation is not rape. You've still made a conscious decision to go along with it, because you decided that the perceived benefit was worth the act. You don't get to whine about it afterwards."

Honestly, I would be concerned if my son or daughter were dating someone who was brought up believing that coercion is not rape.

Anyone can say anything, which comes under the heading of coercion. That doesn't mean you have to agree to it. This is called personal responsibility.

How do you determine coercion? Where do you draw the line? If a guy says "oh, come" twice and the female says no, is that coercion? How many times can he ask? What is the magic number? What are the magic words? What's acceptable that's NOT coercion?

I'd be MUCH more concerned about dating someone who thought that you could say words to them and they'd feel justified in filing rape charges against you. That is absolutely frightening.

[Deleted User 876]

Even these days women who accept the invite to a man's room know what to expect. And yet they go and mysteriously once in the room they lose their ability to say NO, they also evidently lose the capability to walk away. Shocking really, I mean they have consensual S*x then cry foul....i just don't get it.

I do. Because society will label them as victims and smother them with sympathy, even though they put themselves in the situation and CHOSE to go along with it, because they thought it was going to get them something they wanted.