If you have a kid with ODD

[Anonymous 2]

As a medical professional I have never heard anyone call it that.

Almost none of what you said was accurate or factual

As an anon your status as a Medical professional is on par with "Homeopathic" cancer treatments of ginger root and saffron being effective

I have been a nurse for over 20 years. I always use anon

I dont understand what her problem is with anonymous people in this post.

[Pjmm]

ODD is a controversial condition, not because it doesn't exist, but because much of the child's behaviour that is assessed under the DSM-5 criteria is present in many children as a factor of age.

Also, I think today some parents want labels to explain their child's behavior rather than deal with it in parenting.

Well yes if nothing is working for you then you want to know what's wrong. And that might involve a diagnosis. In yds' speech apraxia, adhd, anxiety are things I'd rather he not have but I can get him the proper therapies for these things. And hopefully you'll buy books on parenting a child with adhd or anxiety. Idk anything about ODD so Idk the causes. I'm sure some parents are rotten to the core and hurt their child. Others might be simply ignorant. They've done what their parents have done and when their ways don't work for a kid they don't know what else to do. So the child and they fight each other Into a vicious circle. Or they themselves are struggling with a disability. Some kids by their very nature have to learn by the school of hard knocks and that's frustrating for parents. They'll grow up to be leaders perhaps but meanwhile they're frustrated and so are the families. I think some kids hate being dependent with little control. I can see how counseling can benefit everyone in these cases although I wouldn't say the parents are always shitty. Misguided instead.

[Baconqueen13]

I work in the medical system too, and I can confidently say that not one of those professionals, if they are reputable, stood up there and said, “it’s all due to shitty parenting”. They very likely said, working with parents on how to treat the disease is essential. Parenting and child temperaments are critical in understanding the disease. Parents need more tools to work with these children.

But the posts on this board literally say that it’s “shitty parenting” and there are MANY professionals that weren’t at your conference, who believe just that.

Are you denying this?

I didn't use that term, and of course no, they didn't either.

But the doctors did say that, although ODD is often comorbid with ADHD which could make it more difficult to parent the child, ODD itself was largely a parenting problem and that treatment they did focused mainly on the parent. This was through a very reputable childrens hospital in my area that brought in doctors from several places in the country who have a lot of experience working with these families. So again, I ask you not to call them ignorant.

I agree with you, except, you are taking this personal, as I never said ALL providers, perhaps I should have said “some”, why do you think I am attacking the experts you refer to & know directly? I apologize, I am not. I am constant contact with wonderful PMHNPs, some who specialize in peds. They are dear friends. I adore them, and am not calling them ignorant either, only the ones who literally say it’s shitty or bad parenting.

But out of millions of providers, there are a lot of bad ones & some are ignorant. The posters here do not lie.

I'm sorry if my assessment of the issue is too blunt for your liking....actually no, I'm not. I'm blunt it's a fact of life. Do I think ALL parents whose kids have a diagnosis of ODD are shitty parents.....of course not. Do I believe there is a rise of such cases and diagnoses due to shitty parenting? Yes, overwhelmingly, yes. Would I expect a health care professional to be as blunt as I am in these posts? Certainly not, but I still know how they view or refer to most cases of ODD behind closed doors among other professionals regardless of how blunt they are being about it or not. I'm sorry but it seems to me that you are the one taking this post personally, not anon2.

[Baconqueen13]

As an anon your status as a Medical professional is on par with "Homeopathic" cancer treatments of ginger root and saffron being effective

I have been a nurse for over 20 years. I always use anon

I dont understand what her problem is with anonymous people in this post.

I come from an old school of thought that if you can't own what you say your opinion is invalid.

[LiveWhatULove]

I didn't use that term, and of course no, they didn't either.

But the doctors did say that, although ODD is often comorbid with ADHD which could make it more difficult to parent the child, ODD itself was largely a parenting problem and that treatment they did focused mainly on the parent. This was through a very reputable childrens hospital in my area that brought in doctors from several places in the country who have a lot of experience working with these families. So again, I ask you not to call them ignorant.

I agree with you, except, you are taking this personal, as I never said ALL providers, perhaps I should have said “some”, why do you think I am attacking the experts you refer to & know directly? I apologize, I am not. I am constant contact with wonderful PMHNPs, some who specialize in peds. They are dear friends. I adore them, and am not calling them ignorant as well.

But out of millions of providers, there are a lot of bad ones & some are ignorant. The posters here do not lie.

It's clear having the opinion that ODD is generally a parenting problem doesn't mean they're ignorant. That's all.

[Baconqueen13]

I defriended this one woman over something like this. I don't know her well but I hung out with her a few times because of mutual friends. She was a piece of work. She always had some thing like she was not that overweight. But she needed Gastric bypass. Then she found out she had adult ADD so she could get ritalin and I know she was just doing it so she can lose more weight.

She was a perfectly functional successful adult. She did not have ADD. She ran her own successful business. What a crock.

Anyway, then she started in on her kids. I spent a decent amount of time with her kids. They were fine. Her son was a little nervous acting but honestly that may be because of his mother being nuts. Her DD was adorable and totally normal.

But one day this bitch posts on fb asking about that she thinks her DD has ODD or something because "She has been defiant lately". Um the little girl was 4. That is what sassy little 4 year old girls do! Meanwhile here I am with an actual child with autism to deal with. Oh but she has it SO hard!!!!

I defriended her ass. I just can't with people like that. Of course her DD is like in kindergarten now and perfectly doing great there. That bitch is just F***ing stupid. She either is constantly wanting attention or has Munchasens or something.

Either way-I am never dealing with her again. Our mutual friend ended up dumping her as a friend too. She also got fed up with her antics.

My eldest had a friend whose mom was like that. She would post fits on FB because kids didn't want to hang out with her kid anymore. Made up excuses like "Well one old friend only wants to hang out with the "popular kids", my kid doesn't like x friend anymore and the other hangs out with this boy that my kid doesn't like" .....Her kid was a major bully with control issues and didn't like anyone to have any other friends. The friend her kid "didn't like" anymore her kid had made cry at my kid's Birthday party. My kid was the one that "Hangs out with the boy" this girl didn't like. As far as
Mom, she was "Nice" as far as people go but she was/is a shit parent. Once she pulled her kids from school I unfriended her since our kids didn't hang out anymore.

That is why the mutual friend dumped her. Their DDs were besties. They met in preschool and were really good buddies. But she really could not deal with the mother anymore.

My friend spent a ton of time around her DD and said she did not have ODD or anything else. She was just sassy and had attitude probably from shitty parenting. But a totally normal little girl

The girl didn't have ODD, she was just a bitch. Her brother however, every diagnosis you can think of to excuse the bad behavior. Kid was perfectly normal. Just a spoiled brat. Mom fought to have 504's put in place so he could take gym "at home" because he'd throw temper tantrums if it was any activity he didn't like. Mom would let him sleep in and feed him 3 breakfasts instead. Had "fidget toys" he'd bring in and THROW at classmates so she'd take them away and he'd cry. Even the 1 on 1 assistant this kid had was over the bullshit but they couldn't say anything. Mom would blame the schools and the kids "Conditions" and not take any responsibility.

[LiveWhatULove]

I didn't use that term, and of course no, they didn't either.

But the doctors did say that, although ODD is often comorbid with ADHD which could make it more difficult to parent the child, ODD itself was largely a parenting problem and that treatment they did focused mainly on the parent. This was through a very reputable childrens hospital in my area that brought in doctors from several places in the country who have a lot of experience working with these families. So again, I ask you not to call them ignorant.

I agree with you, except, you are taking this personal, as I never said ALL providers, perhaps I should have said “some”, why do you think I am attacking the experts you refer to & know directly? I apologize, I am not. I am constant contact with wonderful PMHNPs, some who specialize in peds. They are dear friends. I adore them, and am not calling them ignorant either, only the ones who literally say it’s shitty or bad parenting.

But out of millions of providers, there are a lot of bad ones & some are ignorant. The posters here do not lie.

I'm sorry if my assessment of the issue is too blunt for your liking....actually no, I'm not. I'm blunt it's a fact of life. Do I think ALL parents whose kids have a diagnosis of ODD are shitty parents.....of course not. Do I believe there is a rise of such cases and diagnoses due to shitty parenting? Yes, overwhelmingly, yes. Would I expect a health care professional to be as blunt as I am in these posts? Certainly not, but I still know how they view or refer to most cases of ODD behind closed doors among other professionals regardless of how blunt they are being about it or not. I'm sorry but it seems to me that you are the one taking this post personally, not anon2.

f**k yes, I take the situation personal. I am not ashamed by this. Until, you have heard masses telling you, “you are a shitty parent” that’s why your DS is struggling, people don’t understand. I speak out now, I choose to be vulnerable because if just one mother on this board is struggling, crying herself to sleep, beating herself up, spending 1000’s of dollars on therapy and still failing her child, I want her to know she is not alone. Because it is a horribly lonely journey. I want her to know there is hope. And your blunt statements provide no comfort, so that is why I voice mine.

I have worked with patients for 24 years now, and I have no respect for providers that behind closed doors that call people shitty, especially in the mental health world. So let’s just stop now, and disagree about defining it s blunt vs. unprofessional. Sure we all have moments of compassion fatigue and irritability, but anyone working with parents and mentally unwell children and teens that uses routine derogatory language and disrespects the child/parent dyad, gets no respect from me. Get F out of the profession, as far as I am concerned, as it’s bound to result shitty healthcare.

I understand you disagree and that’s fine, as I let my pride get the best of me, just to respond In the first place. If I had wanted to converse with an insensitive, arrogant poster, I would have quoted you first.

[Linda_Runs]

ODD is a controversial condition, not because it doesn't exist, but because much of the child's behaviour that is assessed under the DSM-5 criteria is present in many children as a factor of age.

Also, I think today some parents want labels to explain their child's behavior rather than deal with it in parenting.

Well yes if nothing is working for you then you want to know what's wrong. And that might involve a diagnosis. In yds' speech apraxia, adhd, anxiety are things I'd rather he not have but I can get him the proper therapies for these things. And hopefully you'll buy books on parenting a child with adhd or anxiety. Idk anything about ODD so Idk the causes. I'm sure some parents are rotten to the core and hurt their child. Others might be simply ignorant. They've done what their parents have done and when their ways don't work for a kid they don't know what else to do. So the child and they fight each other Into a vicious circle. Or they themselves are struggling with a disability. Some kids by their very nature have to learn by the school of hard knocks and that's frustrating for parents. They'll grow up to be leaders perhaps but meanwhile they're frustrated and so are the families. I think some kids hate being dependent with little control. I can see how counseling can benefit everyone in these cases although I wouldn't say the parents are always shitty. Misguided instead.

I totally agree with you, particularly with your first sentence, "...if nothing is working...," that would mean a parent tried everything reasonable to parent their child. Furthermore, you are correct that some parents are ignorant, some kids need to learn the hard way and some benefit from counselling.

For me personally, my oldest was a difficult child from age four to even now to some extent in her very early teens, but she never had ODD that we knew of. I am very proud of how both my girls have learned to reason, act politely, perform in school and so on as most parents want. But these successes didn't always come easy or without trouble as we used trial and error like most parents.

When I mentioned that some parents want labels, I am talking about the parents who are not willing to put in the time to deal with the normal crap child start to pull at about age two to whatever for that child.

ODD exists for sure. To deny the existence of ODD would be ignorant, something I think I am not. There is one thing we can all agree on, that is that not everyone will agree about ODD!

[Pjmm]

ODD is a controversial condition, not because it doesn't exist, but because much of the child's behaviour that is assessed under the DSM-5 criteria is present in many children as a factor of age.

Also, I think today some parents want labels to explain their child's behavior rather than deal with it in parenting.

Well yes if nothing is working for you then you want to know what's wrong. And that might involve a diagnosis. In yds' speech apraxia, adhd, anxiety are things I'd rather he not have but I can get him the proper therapies for these things. And hopefully you'll buy books on parenting a child with adhd or anxiety. Idk anything about ODD so Idk the causes. I'm sure some parents are rotten to the core and hurt their child. Others might be simply ignorant. They've done what their parents have done and when their ways don't work for a kid they don't know what else to do. So the child and they fight each other Into a vicious circle. Or they themselves are struggling with a disability. Some kids by their very nature have to learn by the school of hard knocks and that's frustrating for parents. They'll grow up to be leaders perhaps but meanwhile they're frustrated and so are the families. I think some kids hate being dependent with little control. I can see how counseling can benefit everyone in these cases although I wouldn't say the parents are always shitty. Misguided instead.

I totally agree with you, particularly with your first sentence, "...if nothing is working...," that would mean a parent tried everything reasonable to parent their child. Furthermore, you are correct that some parents are ignorant, some kids need to learn the hard way and some benefit from counselling.

For me personally, my oldest was a difficult child from age four to even now to some extent in her very early teens, but she never had ODD that we knew of. I am very proud of how both my girls have learned to reason, act politely, perform in school and so on as most parents want. But these successes didn't always come easy or without trouble as we used trial and error like most parents.

When I mentioned that some parents want labels, I am talking about the parents who are not willing to put in the time to deal with the normal crap child start to pull at about age two to whatever for that child.

ODD exists for sure. To deny the existence of ODD would be ignorant, something I think I am not. There is one thing we can all agree on, that is that not everyone will agree about ODD!

I have not run into any parents that want a label for its own sake. I'm sure they exist but it's not something I personally have any experience with. I think that's a small group. By and large the children I know who have autism, dyslexia, or adhd the parents are involved the best of their abilities. They're not perfect but they're doing their best. Idk anyone with ODD.

[Baconqueen13]

I agree with you, except, you are taking this personal, as I never said ALL providers, perhaps I should have said “some”, why do you think I am attacking the experts you refer to & know directly? I apologize, I am not. I am constant contact with wonderful PMHNPs, some who specialize in peds. They are dear friends. I adore them, and am not calling them ignorant either, only the ones who literally say it’s shitty or bad parenting.

But out of millions of providers, there are a lot of bad ones & some are ignorant. The posters here do not lie.

I'm sorry if my assessment of the issue is too blunt for your liking....actually no, I'm not. I'm blunt it's a fact of life. Do I think ALL parents whose kids have a diagnosis of ODD are shitty parents.....of course not. Do I believe there is a rise of such cases and diagnoses due to shitty parenting? Yes, overwhelmingly, yes. Would I expect a health care professional to be as blunt as I am in these posts? Certainly not, but I still know how they view or refer to most cases of ODD behind closed doors among other professionals regardless of how blunt they are being about it or not. I'm sorry but it seems to me that you are the one taking this post personally, not anon2.

f**k yes, I take the situation personal. I am not ashamed by this. Until, you have heard masses telling you, “you are a shitty parent” that’s why your DS is struggling, people don’t understand. I speak out now, I choose to be vulnerable because if just one mother on this board is struggling, crying herself to sleep, beating herself up, spending 1000’s of dollars on therapy and still failing her child, I want her to know she is not alone. Because it is a horribly lonely journey. I want her to know there is hope. And your blunt statements provide no comfort, so that is why I voice mine.

I have worked with patients for 24 years now, and I have no respect for providers that behind closed doors that call people shitty, especially in the mental health world. So let’s just stop now, and disagree about defining it s blunt vs. unprofessional. Sure we all have moments of compassion fatigue and irritability, but anyone working with parents and mentally unwell children and teens that uses routine derogatory language and disrespects the child/parent dyad, gets no respect from me. Get F out of the profession, as far as I am concerned, as it’s bound to result shitty healthcare.

I understand you disagree and that’s fine, as I let my pride get the best of me, just to respond In the first place. If I had wanted to converse with an insensitive, arrogant poster, I would have quoted you first.

So accusing anon 2 of taking it personal when in fact you're the one taking it personally and only admitting to it after being called out. That's called PROJECTION. You might not have respect for professionals that call it what it is behind closed doors, but that's the reality of the situation. I'm sure your case is completely different and you've done everything in your power to rectify your issues. I'm not here to talk about YOU and I'm not here to comfort the insecure masses that refuse to admit their part in F***ing up their kids. I tell it like it is regardless of how uncomfortable that makes some people. If you take issue with that, my arrogance or "insensitivity" , that's your problem, not mine. My job isn't to hold people's hands and spoon feed them rainbows and excuses. Too much compassion is a breeding ground for excuses to be made and responsibility to be passed off, and is just as big of an issue as a lack of compassion. Since I'm talking about the GENERAL population and not one individual's personal struggle. I have no issue being a straight shooting blunt bitch about the topic. Don't like it, well that's a personal problem IMO.