Riley Gaines demands athletes BOYCOTT Adidas for having biological male model pose in new women's swimwear campaign that

[SouthernIslander]

Never said she doesn’t have the right to do it, doesn’t make her any less transphobic.

Unfortunately you don’t own the term, so you don’t have say in how she responds and shaming people won’t force them to see your point.

I didn’t shame anyone but her and she’s not on here, so that’s obviously not my intent. I don’t own the term, I do know how to read the English dictionary and know what the word means. The is a discussion board, I’m allowed to discuss.

You have a bad habit of doing that to members in this group and it overshadows valid points you have to contribute to the conversation.

You are free to discuss what you please but in order to make a difference you have to be heard and the name calling won’t get you there.

[Francee89]

Right, that is how YOU feel but that doesn’t mean other women should feel that way or something is wrong with them if they don’t.

I don’t have a problem with how anyone defines their womanhood but micromanaging others is where it crosses the line of wrong.

As far as the advertisement, I don’t care about it or see it as a big deal. IMHO, I think it is focusing on a petty detail instead of the overall problem that is causing the division between the LGBT and straight communities.

Right, so telling others that they aren't a woman because they still have a penis crosses that line. But yet, telling women 'it's not your genitals that makes you a woman and it's wrong to only identify with other women with your same genitals' is also crossing that line. So really we (society) are never going to come to an agreement and there is always going to be someone crossing that line. So how do we fix that?

Telling them they aren’t the same as a biological woman isn’t telling them they aren’t women. No more than telling me I am biracial means that I’m not Black or Japanese.

All demographics comes with differences and it is OK to be different.

I think where it begins to seem transphobic is at the point they call for a widespread boycott of a company simply because of the inclusion of a trans person in modelling or advertising or whatever. While they obviously have every right to boycott or buy whatever they want, a person obviously isn’t saying it’s ok to be different if they want to economically punish companies for including those who they see as different in the company marketing.

[SouthernIslander]

When it comes to LGBTQ issues there is not only a political divide but an age divide. While the majority of adults in the US feel that gender is determined by S*x assigned at birth, transgender women should be prohibited from competing in women's sports, and that society has gone either far enough or too far in acceptance of transgender people, the majority of adults under 30 believe the opposite and the biggest influence is knowing someone who is transgender.

Adidas' targeted marking demographic is "aimed towards athletes or young individuals who enjoy sports between the ages of 20 and 30" so it makes complete sense that they would blur gender stereotypes in a marketing campaign, especially a campaign in support of Pride because "capitalism". It also makes sense that they would receive backlash appealing to the larger demographic of adults over 30.

Let's face it, if one truly believes that a transgender woman is as much as woman as a cis-gender woman (as the majority of adults under 30 believe), how can you deny them participation as woman in all aspects of life including sports.

I'll add that "the biggest influence is knowing someone who is transgender" is why many current LGBTQ issues often focus on inclusion and exclusion within the under 18s - in schools, sports, and bathrooms. If transgender boys and girls are unable to freely identify as their non-birth assigned gender, and if discussion of LGBTQ people is barred from the classroom, then cis-gender boys and girls, and heterosexual boys and girls will no longer have that demographic in their life experience from which to form their views. As an example, desegregation of schools created more social cohesion and tolerance and cross racial relationships. It's a heck of a lot easier to negatively judge a demographic of people that you don't personally know than people you do know.

My crystal ball prediction is that in another generation - 20 years - this will no longer be an issue.

The media hasn’t been an accurate reflection of my experience in real life. There are A LOT of adults under 30 who disagree with the notion that biological men and biological women are the same thing, especially when it comes to sports. They just can’t talk about it without getting attacked so athletes like this kid is attacking back and it’s solving nothing.

Using your desegregation example, integrating the schools didn’t mean that Black and Whites were considered the exact same thing. I’m biracial and it’s not the same thing as someone who is full Black or Japanese. I don’t get mad when someone respectfully points that out and I definitely don’t call them racist for telling the truth because it is different.

IMHO, it’s just like Trump and Covid. We can deny science and try make reality what we want it to be but it doesn’t change facts and I think both sides are doing the younger generation a disservice by making them think they can.

I get what you’re saying and I like talking to you because you can discuss this without name calling.

There needs to be a compromise because everyone is taking an extreme stance.

I was just taking my "majority of young adults" statistic from a Pew research paper from last year: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... er-issues/ as well as conversations with my young adult kids and their friends.

70% is a majority but 30% is still a whole lot of young adults.

I don't think that it's a question of biological men and biological women being the same, but rather how do we define a women and men and does the definition only include chromosomes or does gender exist on a spectrum, if that makes sense.

Discrimination against the transgender community currently goes far beyond the question of inclusion in sports and I do believe that young people being more in favor of transgender rights is due to their being exposed to transgender peers. My view and knowledge regarding transgender people has certainly changed as my social circle has expanded to include both transgender men and women.

As far as the science, the science still seems to be out and research in this is still a fairly new occurrence. An example is this recent study:
https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/files ... -final.pdf
Personally, I tend to "both sides" the inclusion of transgender athletes in women's sports but do feel strongly that it needs to be dealt with compassionately and with empathy for both cis-gender and transgender women athletes until the science catches up.

I have faith that this will no longer be an issue in 20 years as I have always thought that younger generations are able to solve issues better than older generations, especially when it comes to equity and fairness.

Name calling is never useful and I like talking to you too!

I don’t trust statistics because it’s been used to push false narratives, especially when it’s drastically different than my experience IRL.

Mississippi is deathly homophonic and LGBT has always run extremely deep in my social circle because both communities were extremely close when we were coming up. So I’m well aware of the bigotry that they face but I also know that we can have conversations like this without insulting each other.

It is OK to say that biological women and trans women are different and we do need to let science catch up before forcing these athletes to compete with biological men and respect the fact that some biological men may not feel comfortable physically competing with a biological woman.

I am glad that times are changing but I hate how this division has changed the relationships between women and LGBT because it doesn’t have to be that way.

I agree that this will be easier once science catches up, but we gotta give it time to do so and stop all the fighting.

[SouthernIslander]

Right, so telling others that they aren't a woman because they still have a penis crosses that line. But yet, telling women 'it's not your genitals that makes you a woman and it's wrong to only identify with other women with your same genitals' is also crossing that line. So really we (society) are never going to come to an agreement and there is always going to be someone crossing that line. So how do we fix that?

Telling them they aren’t the same as a biological woman isn’t telling them they aren’t women. No more than telling me I am biracial means that I’m not Black or Japanese.

All demographics comes with differences and it is OK to be different.

I think where it begins to seem transphobic is at the point they call for a widespread boycott of a company simply because of the inclusion of a trans person in modelling or advertising or whatever. While they obviously have every right to boycott or buy whatever they want, a person obviously isn’t saying it’s ok to be different if they want to economically punish companies for including those who they see as different in the company marketing.

I said earlier that I don’t care about the advertisement and I don’t agree with nitpicking over advertising.

But the overall argument is something we need to talk about without fighting if we want this trolling behavior between both communities to stop.

[Olioxenfree]

Unfortunately you don’t own the term, so you don’t have say in how she responds and shaming people won’t force them to see your point.

I didn’t shame anyone but her and she’s not on here, so that’s obviously not my intent. I don’t own the term, I do know how to read the English dictionary and know what the word means. The is a discussion board, I’m allowed to discuss.

You have a bad habit of doing that to members in this group and it overshadows valid points you have to contribute to the conversation.

You are free to discuss what you please but in order to make a difference you have to be heard and the name calling won’t get you there.

I have said absolutely nothing to shame a member in this thread or can anyone a name, all of my remarks were toward the subject of this article. I could say you have a bad habit of being a hypocrite considering how many names you’ve name called me and how many times you’ve attempted to shame me. I gave zero interest in continuing this conversation with you, it never goes anywhere.

[SouthernIslander]

I didn’t shame anyone but her and she’s not on here, so that’s obviously not my intent. I don’t own the term, I do know how to read the English dictionary and know what the word means. The is a discussion board, I’m allowed to discuss.

You have a bad habit of doing that to members in this group and it overshadows valid points you have to contribute to the conversation.

You are free to discuss what you please but in order to make a difference you have to be heard and the name calling won’t get you there.

I have said absolutely nothing to shame a member in this thread or can anyone a name, all of my remarks were toward the subject of this article. I could say you have a bad habit of being a hypocrite considering how many names you’ve name called me and how many times you’ve attempted to shame me. I gave zero interest in continuing this conversation with you, it never goes anywhere.

I’m not the only one who has pointed this out to you. It is on you to continue to behave that way and people will continue to point it out to you whether you are interested in a conversation or not.

What you are interested in doesn’t matter and I meant every word I have ever said to you. We wouldn’t be having this conversation had you not called me a slut shamer.

So learn how to take the bullshit you dish out.

[Lemons]

Unfortunately you don’t own the term, so you don’t have say in how she responds and shaming people won’t force them to see your point.

I didn’t shame anyone but her and she’s not on here, so that’s obviously not my intent. I don’t own the term, I do know how to read the English dictionary and know what the word means. The is a discussion board, I’m allowed to discuss.

You have a bad habit of doing that to members in this group and it overshadows valid points you have to contribute to the conversation.

You are free to discuss what you please but in order to make a difference you have to be heard and the name calling won’t get you there.

Wow

[SouthernIslander]

I didn’t shame anyone but her and she’s not on here, so that’s obviously not my intent. I don’t own the term, I do know how to read the English dictionary and know what the word means. The is a discussion board, I’m allowed to discuss.

You have a bad habit of doing that to members in this group and it overshadows valid points you have to contribute to the conversation.

You are free to discuss what you please but in order to make a difference you have to be heard and the name calling won’t get you there.

Wow

We can go back to the fight room if you’d like.

[Aletheia]

She says when the fight gets tough, she likes to refer to her favorite Bible verse - Romans 8:18: "For our present sufferings aren't worth comparing to the glory that will be revealed in us," she recited. "And I always thought that was so applicable to swimming because it's truly suffering. I mean, those practices you do, but I constantly remind myself it will be worth it. Our Bible tells us it will be."

[Della]

She says when the fight gets tough, she likes to refer to her favorite Bible verse - Romans 8:18: "For our present sufferings aren't worth comparing to the glory that will be revealed in us," she recited. "And I always thought that was so applicable to swimming because it's truly suffering. I mean, those practices you do, but I constantly remind myself it will be worth it. Our Bible tells us it will be."

The stupid interpretations these nut jobs make are truly amusing.