As Trump airs his election doubts, many supporters say they won't accept a Biden win in 2024

[Slimshandy]

What are you even talking about ?

I can’t even explain it anymore… I’m tired. Ask Wells…

I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I know that this veered off topic when I said independent farmers (I should have included “small”) are going to suffer under Trump and then it spiraled

Then I guess you’re both lost…

I’m just out of energy for the night.

I’ll talk tomorrow…

[Della]

I can’t even explain it anymore… I’m tired. Ask Wells…

I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I know that this veered off topic when I said independent farmers (I should have included “small”) are going to suffer under Trump and then it spiraled

Then I guess you’re both lost…

I’m just out of energy for the night.

I’ll talk tomorrow…

Try to find a source or two to substantiate your claim that food shortages will occur if the government doesn't pay farmers over and above their profit level.

[WellPreserved]

I’m not…I’m showing you why I don’t care…

Sally said the beginning of trump’s dictatorship was him lying about the crowd size at his inauguration… I don’t see it that way.

You guys think lying to the public is absolutely wrong if trump says it, but completely forgivable of Biden does it..,

That’s a lot more disingenuous…

No, Wells is right, it's not the lying, it's insisting that the lie is the truth in the face of all fact checking and reality to the contrary that is authoritarian. That's the difference.

We are not going to get a politician who never lies, but we do have one option that is not authoritarian. Trump wants to make the president above the law. That is some dictator-y shit you should definitely care about.

Don't take my word for it. I'd urge you to please study authoritarianism, and you will see for yourself why Trump and current Republican party fit that definition while Biden and the Democrats don't. We can handle another lying politician without losing democracy. But once people enable authoritarianism, they give up the tools to get rid of it. What then?

I read a tweet thread this morning (can't find it now) that cited a recent Pew poll indicating that 23% of Americans view an autocracy as "not that bad". The tweet was postulating that it's because most Americans don't understand the meaning due to a lack of education (ignorance) because why would someone in the US think an autocracy was a good idea? I wonder about that too but also wonder if part of the appeal is the language used rather than the understanding. "Authority" has a good connotation for some (authority figure, "respect authority", authority in his/her field, "highest authority") and an equally bad connotation for others. It's interesting that this divide is seen when looking at the right and left in almost every western country.

Not sure what is to be done about the lack of understanding. Perhaps people will be concerned if the Democracy index in US is downgraded but I don't know. We can look at Eastern European countries that have backslided in democracy into authoritarian rule (Hungary, Slovenia, Poland) but in the case of Hungary, Republicans have held it up as a country with "same values" as US and should be admired. How do Democrats and moderate Republicans educate the country on what authoritarian rule means without being labelled as "woke mob"? I hate the idea of just gliding and then doing a "I told you so" when our democracy is downgraded and we are living under authoritarian rule. Look at protest against the government in Israel now and well before the invasion of Gaza.

Here is the Pew poll:
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024 ... t-systems/

[Della]

I’m not…I’m showing you why I don’t care…

Sally said the beginning of trump’s dictatorship was him lying about the crowd size at his inauguration… I don’t see it that way.

You guys think lying to the public is absolutely wrong if trump says it, but completely forgivable of Biden does it..,

That’s a lot more disingenuous…

No, Wells is right, it's not the lying, it's insisting that the lie is the truth in the face of all fact checking and reality to the contrary that is authoritarian. That's the difference.

We are not going to get a politician who never lies, but we do have one option that is not authoritarian. Trump wants to make the president above the law. That is some dictator-y shit you should definitely care about.

Don't take my word for it. I'd urge you to please study authoritarianism, and you will see for yourself why Trump and current Republican party fit that definition while Biden and the Democrats don't. We can handle another lying politician without losing democracy. But once people enable authoritarianism, they give up the tools to get rid of it. What then?

I read a tweet thread this morning (can't find it now) that cited a recent Pew poll indicating that 23% of Americans view an autocracy as "not that bad". The tweet was postulating that it's because most Americans don't understand the meaning due to a lack of education (ignorance) because why would someone in the US think an autocracy was a good idea? I wonder about that too but also wonder if part of the appeal is the language used rather than the understanding. "Authority" has a good connotation for some (authority figure, "respect authority", authority in his/her field, "highest authority") and an equally bad connotation for others. It's interesting that this divide is seen when looking at the right and left in almost every western country.

Not sure what is to be done about the lack of understanding. Perhaps people will be concerned if the Democracy index in US is downgraded but I don't know. We can look at Eastern European countries that have backslided in democracy into authoritarian rule (Hungary, Slovenia, Poland) but in the case of Hungary, Republicans have held it up as a country with "same values" as US and should be admired. How do Democrats and moderate Republicans educate the country on what authoritarian rule means without being labelled as "woke mob"? I hate the idea of just gliding and then doing a "I told you so" when our democracy is downgraded and we are living under authoritarian rule. Look at protest against the government in Israel now and well before the invasion of Gaza.

Here is the Pew poll:
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024 ... t-systems/

It won't hit them until they are subjected to their own rules. Unintended consequences.