2023 Republican Party

SallyMae
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SlimShady wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:06 am
SallyMae wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:38 am Well, since October 7, Israeli forces have launched thousands of air bombardments in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 3,793 people, mostly civilians, including more than 1,500 children. The decision was made that killing all those innocent people IS worth "killing the bad guy," and many here would agree, *all* of that blood is on the hands of Hamas.
Since October 7th , Hamas...
Well that's another discussion. But, it seems like you also agree that blood is on the hands of Hamas.


In this discussion we are talking about who is responsible for the damages that were incurred during the Black Lives Matter protests. The unprovoked attack in this case was by a state actor, Derek Chauvin, and the cumulative effects of decades of brutal overpolicing of Black communities, resulting in many unjust deaths and ruined lives including of children. With that legacy, the horrid, unjust death of George Floyd hit those communities just as hard as 9/11 or similar tragedies.

Rage boiled over, as it does, and people took the only recourse available to them, which was to take to the streets. Amazingly, 97% of those protests were peaceful, millions of people peacefully marching in cities all over the country. But, when protests are so widespread, so angry, over such ongoing injustice, there is simply no way to guarantee that none of them will get out of hand. A few did. That's what happens when people get hurt - they lash out. As you might say, "...are they supposed to just wait to die without firing back?"

"Killing the bad guy" in this case meant putting an end to this kind of overpolicing. Did it work? According to Scientific American, killings by police declined after Black Lives Matter Protests. A study also found body-camera use and community policing increased in places with the most active movements. Imperfect as it was, it did work.

Point, if Derek Chauvin had never crushed the life out of George Floyd, those riots would never have happened in the first place. The state attacked, and people merely responded in kind with necessary force. The damage is on his hands.

Because I understand shared responsibility, I would say it's ALSO on the hand of those few people who physically did the damage. But the last people responsible for it is general "democrats".
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Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:08 am If you’re Jewish, it’s pretty close. It was Democrats who called to defund the Iron Dome- which is purely DEFENSIVE and protects Arab citizens as well. They want Israel’s main defense gone. What would’ve happened to Israel now without it and Hamas launching thousands of missile rockets at Israel?
Why are these same democrats condemning Israel for defending itself? Calling for a ceasefire fully knowing than to do so means more terrorist attacks in Israel? And why have they not called for the hostages- including 13 American citizens- to be released at the same time? They’re AMERICAN representatives, shouldn’t their priority be American citizens?
So if they want America to not stand with Israel- the only democracy in the region and only ally to the U.S- then they want America to stand with the other side- Hamas. Because this isn’t an Israel-Palestine war. This is a Israel-Hamas war. If they don’t stand with Israel defending itself, then they stand with Hamas and their determination to wipe out all Jews from the world, starting with our country. That’s what these attacks were about, there was no political agenda, it wasn’t a “resistance” to “free palestine. Hamas doesn’t give a crap about palestine, Gaza or palestinians. They use their own people as human shields just to demonize Israel, for crying out loud. These attacks were about killing Jews and destroying Israel, that’s all.
Whoever stands with that, is no better than Hitler. Because hailing Hitler and hailing Hamas is exactly the same.

And actually, as a Jew, I prefer those hailing Hitler to those hiding their antisemitism behind the mask of a “noble” cause. At least with the former, you know your enemy, you can fight your enemy and because they also hate others, you have support in that fight. With the leftist antisemitism, they pretend to be the good guys, the ones fighting for “justice” and “freedom”, the ones rooting for the little guy. They ennoble their hatred behind those masks. That is harder to fight, especially when they use decades old lies and tropes to rally for their “cause”. And because their hatred is exclusively for Jews, we pretty much stand alone. We’re about 16 million people- less than 0.2% of the world’s population- having to defend ourselves from these evil and malicious lies. Probably what’s good coming out from this tragedy is that many are pulling those masks off and showing their true colors. I already saw quite a few of them right here in mom confessions. It was very disheartening 😢
Aletheia wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:34 am
Momto2boys973 wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:27 pm But I see democrat lawmakers having this same hateful attitude.

they’re demanding that the U.S stops standing behind Israel
That's not in the same ball park as praising Adolph Hitler.

There are Jews who don't think unquestioning support of Israel is a good idea.
The condemnation is not against Israel defending itself. The condemnation is against Israel killing thousands of civilian women and children in their efforts to defend. It's not just a handful of democrats in congress asking for a ceasefire, it is worldwide including almost all humanitarian organizations, religious groups (including some Jewish groups), and even some Western country's official political position. In the US, some unions (UFCW and CE) have petitioned for a ceasefire.

As far as the hostages, every group that I am aware of has plead for the release of the hostages. Let me ask you, from what Israeli government officials have reported, the hostages are being kept in various locations throughout Gaza. Do you think the relentless bombing of civilians in Gaza will somehow avoid killing some of the hostages? Will it avoid killing some of the hundreds of Americans and other foreign nationals currently in Gaza without a way out?

Personally, I'm getting sick and tired of being accused of being anti-semitic because I don't support the bombing of civilians in Gaza as well as being accused of personally trying to show Israel in a bad light when I post an NPR article. I get that you think Israel's bombardment of Gaza is justified while I do not. It's a difference of opinion, not anti-semitism.

When this horrific thing all started, I posted that Israel needed to abide by international law when conducting their defense or lose public support. Two weeks in, it looks as if that is happening. Most people are not tolerant when seeing dead children whether they are Israeli kids or Palestinian kids. Perhaps if you are tolerant of one and not the other, it is you that has a bias.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
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highlandmum
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WellPreserved wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:07 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:08 am If you’re Jewish, it’s pretty close. It was Democrats who called to defund the Iron Dome- which is purely DEFENSIVE and protects Arab citizens as well. They want Israel’s main defense gone. What would’ve happened to Israel now without it and Hamas launching thousands of missile rockets at Israel?
Why are these same democrats condemning Israel for defending itself? Calling for a ceasefire fully knowing than to do so means more terrorist attacks in Israel? And why have they not called for the hostages- including 13 American citizens- to be released at the same time? They’re AMERICAN representatives, shouldn’t their priority be American citizens?
So if they want America to not stand with Israel- the only democracy in the region and only ally to the U.S- then they want America to stand with the other side- Hamas. Because this isn’t an Israel-Palestine war. This is a Israel-Hamas war. If they don’t stand with Israel defending itself, then they stand with Hamas and their determination to wipe out all Jews from the world, starting with our country. That’s what these attacks were about, there was no political agenda, it wasn’t a “resistance” to “free palestine. Hamas doesn’t give a crap about palestine, Gaza or palestinians. They use their own people as human shields just to demonize Israel, for crying out loud. These attacks were about killing Jews and destroying Israel, that’s all.
Whoever stands with that, is no better than Hitler. Because hailing Hitler and hailing Hamas is exactly the same.

And actually, as a Jew, I prefer those hailing Hitler to those hiding their antisemitism behind the mask of a “noble” cause. At least with the former, you know your enemy, you can fight your enemy and because they also hate others, you have support in that fight. With the leftist antisemitism, they pretend to be the good guys, the ones fighting for “justice” and “freedom”, the ones rooting for the little guy. They ennoble their hatred behind those masks. That is harder to fight, especially when they use decades old lies and tropes to rally for their “cause”. And because their hatred is exclusively for Jews, we pretty much stand alone. We’re about 16 million people- less than 0.2% of the world’s population- having to defend ourselves from these evil and malicious lies. Probably what’s good coming out from this tragedy is that many are pulling those masks off and showing their true colors. I already saw quite a few of them right here in mom confessions. It was very disheartening 😢
Aletheia wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:34 am

That's not in the same ball park as praising Adolph Hitler.

There are Jews who don't think unquestioning support of Israel is a good idea.
The condemnation is not against Israel defending itself. The condemnation is against Israel killing thousands of civilian women and children in their efforts to defend. It's not just a handful of democrats in congress asking for a ceasefire, it is worldwide including almost all humanitarian organizations, religious groups (including some Jewish groups), and even some Western country's official political position. In the US, some unions (UFCW and CE) have petitioned for a ceasefire.

As far as the hostages, every group that I am aware of has plead for the release of the hostages. Let me ask you, from what Israeli government officials have reported, the hostages are being kept in various locations throughout Gaza. Do you think the relentless bombing and civilians in Gaza will somehow avoid killing some of the hostages. Will it avoid killing some of the hundreds of Americans and other foreign nationals currently in Gaza without a way out?

Personally, I'm getting sick and tired of being accused of being anti-semitic because I don't support the bombing of civilians in Gaza as well as being accused or personally trying to show Israel in a bad light when I post an NPR article. I get that you think Israel's bombardment of Gaza is justified while I do not. It's a difference of opinion, not anti-semitism.

When this horrific thing all started, I posted that Israel needed to abide by international law when conducting their defense or lose public support. Two weeks in, it looks as if that is happening. Most people are not tolerant in seeing dead children whether they are Israeli kids or Palestinian kids. Perhaps if you are tolerant of one and not the other, it is you that has a bias.
You are expressing this perfectly. As I said my neighbour lost a six month old nephew in a bombing, while his 3 year old nephew is now a orphan. They were in a area they were told to go for safety. Israel has a right to defend itself and it borders without any question. But I agree wholeheartedly with WellPreserved and that included her stance on the bombardment of the Gaza in areas where civilians were told to seek shelter.
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SallyMae wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:50 am
SlimShady wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:06 am
SallyMae wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:38 am Well, since October 7, Israeli forces have launched thousands of air bombardments in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 3,793 people, mostly civilians, including more than 1,500 children. The decision was made that killing all those innocent people IS worth "killing the bad guy," and many here would agree, *all* of that blood is on the hands of Hamas.
Since October 7th , Hamas...
Well that's another discussion. But, it seems like you also agree that blood is on the hands of Hamas.


In this discussion we are talking about who is responsible for the damages that were incurred during the Black Lives Matter protests. The unprovoked attack in this case was by a state actor, Derek Chauvin, and the cumulative effects of decades of brutal overpolicing of Black communities, resulting in many unjust deaths and ruined lives including of children. With that legacy, the horrid, unjust death of George Floyd hit those communities just as hard as 9/11 or similar tragedies.

Rage boiled over, as it does, and people took the only recourse available to them, which was to take to the streets. Amazingly, 97% of those protests were peaceful, millions of people peacefully marching in cities all over the country. But, when protests are so widespread, so angry, over such ongoing injustice, there is simply no way to guarantee that none of them will get out of hand. A few did. That's what happens when people get hurt - they lash out. As you might say, "...are they supposed to just wait to die without firing back?"

"Killing the bad guy" in this case meant putting an end to this kind of overpolicing. Did it work? According to Scientific American, killings by police declined after Black Lives Matter Protests. A study also found body-camera use and community policing increased in places with the most active movements. Imperfect as it was, it did work.

Point, if Derek Chauvin had never crushed the life out of George Floyd, those riots would never have happened in the first place. The state attacked, and people merely responded in kind with necessary force. The damage is on his hands.

Because I understand shared responsibility, I would say it's ALSO on the hand of those few people who physically did the damage. But the last people responsible for it is general "democrats".
Police brutality is a generational fall out from slavery and Jim crow, so those riots isn’t not as simplistic as blaming 1 person or political party.

I don’t speak for all Black people but I would not approve of slaughtering a large number of police officer’s babies in retaliation either.

And I am just saying this before the conversation gets racially out of hand over a false equivalency because I am not sure why Black people are being used as an example here but this isn’t comparable to the Hamas attack nor justify it.

Edit: I am not saying you are doing that on purpose or typing this in a rude tone, so please don’t take it that way.
SallyMae
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SouthernIslander wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:34 pm
Police brutality is a generational fall out from slavery and Jim crow, so those riots isn’t not as simplistic as blaming 1 person or political party.
I agree, they are the responsibility of the state.
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SallyMae wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:50 am
SlimShady wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:06 am
SallyMae wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:38 am Well, since October 7, Israeli forces have launched thousands of air bombardments in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 3,793 people, mostly civilians, including more than 1,500 children. The decision was made that killing all those innocent people IS worth "killing the bad guy," and many here would agree, *all* of that blood is on the hands of Hamas.
Since October 7th , Hamas...
Well that's another discussion. But, it seems like you also agree that blood is on the hands of Hamas.


In this discussion we are talking about who is responsible for the damages that were incurred during the Black Lives Matter protests. The unprovoked attack in this case was by a state actor, Derek Chauvin, and the cumulative effects of decades of brutal overpolicing of Black communities, resulting in many unjust deaths and ruined lives including of children. With that legacy, the horrid, unjust death of George Floyd hit those communities just as hard as 9/11 or similar tragedies.

Rage boiled over, as it does, and people took the only recourse available to them, which was to take to the streets. Amazingly, 97% of those protests were peaceful, millions of people peacefully marching in cities all over the country. But, when protests are so widespread, so angry, over such ongoing injustice, there is simply no way to guarantee that none of them will get out of hand. A few did. That's what happens when people get hurt - they lash out. As you might say, "...are they supposed to just wait to die without firing back?"

"Killing the bad guy" in this case meant putting an end to this kind of overpolicing. Did it work? According to Scientific American, killings by police declined after Black Lives Matter Protests. A study also found body-camera use and community policing increased in places with the most active movements. Imperfect as it was, it did work.

Point, if Derek Chauvin had never crushed the life out of George Floyd, those riots would never have happened in the first place. The state attacked, and people merely responded in kind with necessary force. The damage is on his hands.

Because I understand shared responsibility, I would say it's ALSO on the hand of those few people who physically did the damage. But the last people responsible for it is general "democrats".

It did not work… everywhere that was big on the defund the police movement is now flooded with crime.

Is Derek Chauvin “the state” ?

He definitely worked for the state… but does he define it?

Do the small handful that misuse their position for harm (and are punished with 20+ years in prison) define the seven hundred thousand police officers that save lives and protect communities every day of their lives?




This conversation started with a comparison of the police in America to terrorists… it’s just not an equal comparison.

99% of Hamas aren’t good people… 99% of Police are..

The actions and consequences of both groups are not comparable.
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SlimShady wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:48 pm It did not work… everywhere that was big on the defund the police movement is now flooded with crime.
No, defund the police and crime rates are a different discussion. I said, police shootings are down and accountability is up as a result of the protests. But let's put a pin in that.

Is Derek Chauvin “the state” ? He definitely worked for the state… but does he define it?

Do the small handful that misuse their position for harm (and are punished with 20+ years in prison) define the seven hundred thousand police officers that save lives and protect communities every day of their lives?

This conversation started with a comparison of the police in America to terrorists… it’s just not an equal comparison.

99% of Hamas aren’t good people… 99% of Police are..

The actions and consequences of both groups are not comparable.
No, this conversation started with a comparison of democrats in America to violent protesters. Do the small handful who got violent at a protest (and were punished with due process) define the 49 million people, the largest group of voters in America, including some police officers, doctors, teachers, store owners, moms and dads and people who protect their communities every day of their lives?

99% of the BLM protesters, 99% of Democrats, are good people. The actions and consequences of both groups are not comparable.
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SallyMae wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:11 pm
SlimShady wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:48 pm It did not work… everywhere that was big on the defund the police movement is now flooded with crime.
No, defund the police and crime rates are a different discussion. I said, police shootings are down and accountability is up as a result of the protests. But let's put a pin in that.

Is Derek Chauvin “the state” ? He definitely worked for the state… but does he define it?

Do the small handful that misuse their position for harm (and are punished with 20+ years in prison) define the seven hundred thousand police officers that save lives and protect communities every day of their lives?

This conversation started with a comparison of the police in America to terrorists… it’s just not an equal comparison.

99% of Hamas aren’t good people… 99% of Police are..

The actions and consequences of both groups are not comparable.
No, this conversation started with a comparison of democrats in America to violent protesters. Do the small handful who got violent at a protest (and were punished with due process) define the 49 million people, the largest group of voters in America, including some police officers, doctors, teachers, store owners, moms and dads and people who protect their communities every day of their lives?

99% of the BLM protesters, 99% of Democrats, are good people. The actions and consequences of both groups are not comparable.
So in the end, democrats are comparable to republicans.

Both sides have the violent, both sides are overwhelmingly good people.
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