Riley Gaines demands athletes BOYCOTT Adidas for having biological male model pose in new women's swimwear campaign that

[SouthernIslander]

She’s literally boycotting a company solely because they let someone with a penis model a bathing suit. Many athletes have natural advantages, she’s not asking for them to be banned. Many trans athletes do not have natural advantage, but she still wants them banned. Even with her efforts to ban trans athletes aside, she has still expressed transphobic views.

Sorry but I'm just done with you when it comes to topics like this.

Not everyone that opposes transgender men and women do so because they're "phobic". You won't understand that, however.

Whether or not I agree with Gaines doesn't change the fact that I respect her rights to be upset. That she lost to a transgender woman gives her a more up close and personal perspective, IMO.

You won't care though.

She didn’t lose to a transgender woman. She tied with one for fifth place. They were both beat by four other biological women. Opposing transgender men and women is literally transphobia. She is calling for a boycott of a sompany over models with penises wearing women’s swimsuits, but you think she has no issue with trans people? Once again, I never said she didn’t have the right to her own opinions, but she doesn’t have the right to force her discrimination on others.

“
Dictionary definition of transphobia- irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people

She has a right to call a boycott, even if you don’t like or agree with it.

[Traci_Momof2]

I heard about this.

This probably won’t be a popular opinion. The root of the overall problem (not just this story) is that a lot of biological women don’t want to be considered the same thing as a biological male and there needs to be some sort of compromise on this without the shaming/name calling.

As far as adidas, no strong opinion. It is their choice to market their product however they please. I don’t have a problem with it.

Hell, maybe I don't want to be considered the same thing as a lot of biological women.

All kidding aside, maybe it's just me, but I don't understand wrapping one's identity around one's gender or biological S*x. I am a human, who happens to be female, who happens to be a brunette (actually half grey these days), who happens to be an accountant, and so on. They are all pieces of the puzzle that make me, but no one thing by itself makes me. And if someone who is a natural blonde dyes their hair and calls themselves a brunette, does that lessen my own brunette-ness (if that's a word)? No. So if someone wants to tuck their genitals and call themselves a woman, does that lessen my own womanhood? No. It has zero impact on me and who I am.

So if a model is modeling a swimsuit for a company that sells swimsuits, why should I care what's under the swimsuit? I'm going to care more about the size of the model (to try to picture myself in the suit) than I'm going to care about what is or isn't tucked away.

[SouthernIslander]

Gaines opposing transgender women competing in sports that have in the past, not included them because of physical gains a transgender woman can and does have, does not make Gaines transphobic.

She’s literally boycotting a company solely because they let someone with a penis model a bathing suit. Many athletes have natural advantages, she’s not asking for them to be banned. Many trans athletes do not have natural advantage, but she still wants them banned. Even with her efforts to ban trans athletes aside, she has still expressed transphobic views.

Sorry but I'm just done with you when it comes to topics like this.

Not everyone that opposes transgender men and women do so because they're "phobic". You won't understand that, however.

Whether or not I agree with Gaines doesn't change the fact that I respect her rights to be upset. That she lost to a transgender woman gives her a more up close and personal perspective, IMO.

You won't care though.

I agree. The advertisement, I don’t care about but it’s not transphobic to disagree with biological males competing with biological females in sports.

Yes, her actions over the ad is petty but that is the reaction you sign up for when you (general) create an environment that attacks people to force your views down their throats.

I hate to say this but NOBODY died and made white liberals the sole gate keepers of America’s moral compass and this disgusting habit of micromanaging other people by name calling has done nothing but make compromise impossible.

[Olioxenfree]

Sorry but I'm just done with you when it comes to topics like this.

Not everyone that opposes transgender men and women do so because they're "phobic". You won't understand that, however.

Whether or not I agree with Gaines doesn't change the fact that I respect her rights to be upset. That she lost to a transgender woman gives her a more up close and personal perspective, IMO.

You won't care though.

She didn’t lose to a transgender woman. She tied with one for fifth place. They were both beat by four other biological women. Opposing transgender men and women is literally transphobia. She is calling for a boycott of a sompany over models with penises wearing women’s swimsuits, but you think she has no issue with trans people? Once again, I never said she didn’t have the right to her own opinions, but she doesn’t have the right to force her discrimination on others.

“
Dictionary definition of transphobia- irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people

She has a right to call a boycott, even if you don’t like or agree with it.

Never said she doesn’t have the right to do it, doesn’t make her any less transphobic.

[SouthernIslander]

I heard about this.

This probably won’t be a popular opinion. The root of the overall problem (not just this story) is that a lot of biological women don’t want to be considered the same thing as a biological male and there needs to be some sort of compromise on this without the shaming/name calling.

As far as adidas, no strong opinion. It is their choice to market their product however they please. I don’t have a problem with it.

Hell, maybe I don't want to be considered the same thing as a lot of biological women.

All kidding aside, maybe it's just me, but I don't understand wrapping one's identity around one's gender or biological S*x. I am a human, who happens to be female, who happens to be a brunette (actually half grey these days), who happens to be an accountant, and so on. They are all pieces of the puzzle that make me, but no one thing by itself makes me. And if someone who is a natural blonde dyes their hair and calls themselves a brunette, does that lessen my own brunette-ness (if that's a word)? No. So if someone wants to tuck their genitals and call themselves a woman, does that lessen my own womanhood? No. It has zero impact on me and who I am.

So if a model is modeling a swimsuit for a company that sells swimsuits, why should I care what's under the swimsuit? I'm going to care more about the size of the model (to try to picture myself in the suit) than I'm going to care about what is or isn't tucked away.

Right, that is how YOU feel but that doesn’t mean other women should feel that way or something is wrong with them if they don’t.

I don’t have a problem with how anyone defines their womanhood but micromanaging others is where it crosses the line of wrong.

As far as the advertisement, I don’t care about it or see it as a big deal. IMHO, I think it is focusing on a petty detail instead of the overall problem that is causing the division between the LGBT and straight communities.

[SouthernIslander]

She didn’t lose to a transgender woman. She tied with one for fifth place. They were both beat by four other biological women. Opposing transgender men and women is literally transphobia. She is calling for a boycott of a sompany over models with penises wearing women’s swimsuits, but you think she has no issue with trans people? Once again, I never said she didn’t have the right to her own opinions, but she doesn’t have the right to force her discrimination on others.

“
Dictionary definition of transphobia- irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people

She has a right to call a boycott, even if you don’t like or agree with it.

Never said she doesn’t have the right to do it, doesn’t make her any less transphobic.

Unfortunately you don’t own the term, so you don’t have say in how she responds and shaming people won’t force them to see your point.

[Olioxenfree]

She has a right to call a boycott, even if you don’t like or agree with it.

Never said she doesn’t have the right to do it, doesn’t make her any less transphobic.

Unfortunately you don’t own the term, so you don’t have say in how she responds and shaming people won’t force them to see your point.

I didn’t shame anyone but her and she’s not on here, so that’s obviously not my intent. I don’t own the term, I do know how to read the English dictionary and know what the word means. The is a discussion board, I’m allowed to discuss.

[Traci_Momof2]

I heard about this.

This probably won’t be a popular opinion. The root of the overall problem (not just this story) is that a lot of biological women don’t want to be considered the same thing as a biological male and there needs to be some sort of compromise on this without the shaming/name calling.

As far as adidas, no strong opinion. It is their choice to market their product however they please. I don’t have a problem with it.

Hell, maybe I don't want to be considered the same thing as a lot of biological women.

All kidding aside, maybe it's just me, but I don't understand wrapping one's identity around one's gender or biological S*x. I am a human, who happens to be female, who happens to be a brunette (actually half grey these days), who happens to be an accountant, and so on. They are all pieces of the puzzle that make me, but no one thing by itself makes me. And if someone who is a natural blonde dyes their hair and calls themselves a brunette, does that lessen my own brunette-ness (if that's a word)? No. So if someone wants to tuck their genitals and call themselves a woman, does that lessen my own womanhood? No. It has zero impact on me and who I am.

So if a model is modeling a swimsuit for a company that sells swimsuits, why should I care what's under the swimsuit? I'm going to care more about the size of the model (to try to picture myself in the suit) than I'm going to care about what is or isn't tucked away.

Right, that is how YOU feel but that doesn’t mean other women should feel that way or something is wrong with them if they don’t.

I don’t have a problem with how anyone defines their womanhood but micromanaging others is where it crosses the line of wrong.

As far as the advertisement, I don’t care about it or see it as a big deal. IMHO, I think it is focusing on a petty detail instead of the overall problem that is causing the division between the LGBT and straight communities.

Right, so telling others that they aren't a woman because they still have a penis crosses that line. But yet, telling women 'it's not your genitals that makes you a woman and it's wrong to only identify with other women with your same genitals' is also crossing that line. So really we (society) are never going to come to an agreement and there is always going to be someone crossing that line. So how do we fix that?

[SouthernIslander]

Hell, maybe I don't want to be considered the same thing as a lot of biological women.

All kidding aside, maybe it's just me, but I don't understand wrapping one's identity around one's gender or biological S*x. I am a human, who happens to be female, who happens to be a brunette (actually half grey these days), who happens to be an accountant, and so on. They are all pieces of the puzzle that make me, but no one thing by itself makes me. And if someone who is a natural blonde dyes their hair and calls themselves a brunette, does that lessen my own brunette-ness (if that's a word)? No. So if someone wants to tuck their genitals and call themselves a woman, does that lessen my own womanhood? No. It has zero impact on me and who I am.

So if a model is modeling a swimsuit for a company that sells swimsuits, why should I care what's under the swimsuit? I'm going to care more about the size of the model (to try to picture myself in the suit) than I'm going to care about what is or isn't tucked away.

Right, that is how YOU feel but that doesn’t mean other women should feel that way or something is wrong with them if they don’t.

I don’t have a problem with how anyone defines their womanhood but micromanaging others is where it crosses the line of wrong.

As far as the advertisement, I don’t care about it or see it as a big deal. IMHO, I think it is focusing on a petty detail instead of the overall problem that is causing the division between the LGBT and straight communities.

Right, so telling others that they aren't a woman because they still have a penis crosses that line. But yet, telling women 'it's not your genitals that makes you a woman and it's wrong to only identify with other women with your same genitals' is also crossing that line. So really we (society) are never going to come to an agreement and there is always going to be someone crossing that line. So how do we fix that?

Telling them they aren’t the same as a biological woman isn’t telling them they aren’t women. No more than telling me I am biracial means that I’m not Black or Japanese.

All demographics comes with differences and it is OK to be different.

[WellPreserved]

When it comes to LGBTQ issues there is not only a political divide but an age divide. While the majority of adults in the US feel that gender is determined by S*x assigned at birth, transgender women should be prohibited from competing in women's sports, and that society has gone either far enough or too far in acceptance of transgender people, the majority of adults under 30 believe the opposite and the biggest influence is knowing someone who is transgender.

Adidas' targeted marking demographic is "aimed towards athletes or young individuals who enjoy sports between the ages of 20 and 30" so it makes complete sense that they would blur gender stereotypes in a marketing campaign, especially a campaign in support of Pride because "capitalism". It also makes sense that they would receive backlash appealing to the larger demographic of adults over 30.

Let's face it, if one truly believes that a transgender woman is as much as woman as a cis-gender woman (as the majority of adults under 30 believe), how can you deny them participation as woman in all aspects of life including sports.

I'll add that "the biggest influence is knowing someone who is transgender" is why many current LGBTQ issues often focus on inclusion and exclusion within the under 18s - in schools, sports, and bathrooms. If transgender boys and girls are unable to freely identify as their non-birth assigned gender, and if discussion of LGBTQ people is barred from the classroom, then cis-gender boys and girls, and heterosexual boys and girls will no longer have that demographic in their life experience from which to form their views. As an example, desegregation of schools created more social cohesion and tolerance and cross racial relationships. It's a heck of a lot easier to negatively judge a demographic of people that you don't personally know than people you do know.

My crystal ball prediction is that in another generation - 20 years - this will no longer be an issue.

The media hasn’t been an accurate reflection of my experience in real life. There are A LOT of adults under 30 who disagree with the notion that biological men and biological women are the same thing, especially when it comes to sports. They just can’t talk about it without getting attacked so athletes like this kid is attacking back and it’s solving nothing.

Using your desegregation example, integrating the schools didn’t mean that Black and Whites were considered the exact same thing. I’m biracial and it’s not the same thing as someone who is full Black or Japanese. I don’t get mad when someone respectfully points that out and I definitely don’t call them racist for telling the truth because it is different.

IMHO, it’s just like Trump and Covid. We can deny science and try make reality what we want it to be but it doesn’t change facts and I think both sides are doing the younger generation a disservice by making them think they can.

I get what you’re saying and I like talking to you because you can discuss this without name calling.

There needs to be a compromise because everyone is taking an extreme stance.

I was just taking my "majority of young adults" statistic from a Pew research paper from last year: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... er-issues/ as well as conversations with my young adult kids and their friends.

70% is a majority but 30% is still a whole lot of young adults.

I don't think that it's a question of biological men and biological women being the same, but rather how do we define a women and men and does the definition only include chromosomes or does gender exist on a spectrum, if that makes sense.

Discrimination against the transgender community currently goes far beyond the question of inclusion in sports and I do believe that young people being more in favor of transgender rights is due to their being exposed to transgender peers. My view and knowledge regarding transgender people has certainly changed as my social circle has expanded to include both transgender men and women.

As far as the science, the science still seems to be out and research in this is still a fairly new occurrence. An example is this recent study:
https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/files ... -final.pdf
Personally, I tend to "both sides" the inclusion of transgender athletes in women's sports but do feel strongly that it needs to be dealt with compassionately and with empathy for both cis-gender and transgender women athletes until the science catches up.

I have faith that this will no longer be an issue in 20 years as I have always thought that younger generations are able to solve issues better than older generations, especially when it comes to equity and fairness.

Name calling is never useful and I like talking to you too!