Florida bill defines drag shows as ‘serious danger to public health & safety’ for kids

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WellPreserved
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:32 pm
SallyMae wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:10 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:46 pm

I’m definitely saying that live shows give a different experience than watching it on tv… for sure.

What you are exposed to is different, who you are exposed to is different, the level of inebriated strangers you are exposed to is different, the level of conversation is different…. Why do you think kids aren’t allowed to go to Nightclubs? Do you think those rules are too strict?
I'm still not hearing how this is so much worse than National Lampoon that we need a new law closing down venues. Ambiance is not an emergency.
Whether you agree or not…Do you understand why we made laws that don’t allow kids into nightclubs?
Liquor licensing and it varies from state to state.
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:04 pm
SallyMae wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:00 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:32 pm

Whether you agree or not…Do you understand why we made laws that don’t allow kids into nightclubs?
I understand it perfectly, and I also understand that it's pretty F***ing arbitrary - I think it's way more harmful to kids to be exposed to inebriated adults in the home, at Super Bowl parties, at backyard barbecues, at every wedding and birthday and holiday, every weekend in front of the TV etc. That is so common and so harmful it would really save lives if we had laws going after that, instead of new rules which focus on extremely narrow circumstances - three kids at one drag show.

But, I understand that the choice to get drunk in front of kids is a matter of privacy and personal liberty, also protected as self-determination. So I don't think we should be making laws about it, any more than we need laws to save the children from inappropriate drag routines.
Ok… so you do think it’s a problem when adults are drunk around kids at a Super Bowl party, but you don’t see a problem with adults drunk around kids at a nightclub?

Or you think both are wrong?
I do think they both can be wrong, but not enough to warrant new laws limiting personal liberty for everyone. Does that makes sense?
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SallyMae wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:15 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:04 pm
SallyMae wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:00 pm

I understand it perfectly, and I also understand that it's pretty F***ing arbitrary - I think it's way more harmful to kids to be exposed to inebriated adults in the home, at Super Bowl parties, at backyard barbecues, at every wedding and birthday and holiday, every weekend in front of the TV etc. That is so common and so harmful it would really save lives if we had laws going after that, instead of new rules which focus on extremely narrow circumstances - three kids at one drag show.

But, I understand that the choice to get drunk in front of kids is a matter of privacy and personal liberty, also protected as self-determination. So I don't think we should be making laws about it, any more than we need laws to save the children from inappropriate drag routines.
Ok… so you do think it’s a problem when adults are drunk around kids at a Super Bowl party, but you don’t see a problem with adults drunk around kids at a nightclub?

Or you think both are wrong?
I do they they both can be wrong, but not enough to warrant limiting personal liberty for everyone. Does that makes sense?
We already do limit personal liberty in both circumstances…

If the cops show up to a house that got a noise complaint on superbowl Sunday, and see a toddler in the background and no sober adults present, someone being arrested for neglect is fully allowed…


Once people are adults around other adults they can do whatever they want, but when kids are present there are rules of decorum…
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BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:23 pm
SallyMae wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:15 pm
BobCobbMagob wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:04 pm

Ok… so you do think it’s a problem when adults are drunk around kids at a Super Bowl party, but you don’t see a problem with adults drunk around kids at a nightclub?

Or you think both are wrong?
I do they they both can be wrong, but not enough to warrant limiting personal liberty for everyone. Does that makes sense?
We already do limit personal liberty in both circumstances…

If the cops show up to a house that got a noise complaint on superbowl Sunday, and see a toddler in the background and no sober adults present, someone being arrested for neglect is fully allowed…


Once people are adults around other adults they can do whatever they want, but when kids are present there are rules of decorum…
warrant *new laws* limiting personal liberty for everyone.
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This was nothing more than to put a feather in his cap. There aren't even that many drag shows in the state of Florida.
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I'm torn. According to the title, they are targeting Drag shows. But what about the same content in a movie or any show that isn't drag, as is suggested in the language of the bill? Are they going to make that illegal, too? Or is it already? Do we have laws about showing kids porn or soft porn? I mean, I think maybe there should be...but how do we define that line? Because if it is simply movie ratings, I don't find that very reliable. There are a lot of R-rated movies I have let my kids watch and some I will never give permission for my kids watch even when they are 17.

If there are a ton of people allowing their young children to watch the sexually suggestive kind of drag show, then I would probably have a problem with that, too. But I don't think that is happening. The children's drag story hour at your local library isn't showing any tits or making sexual innuendos.

I guess this just begets the question of how much we are going to micro manage our laws. Republicans are supposed to be the party of small government, but this seems like the opposite of that unless you can come up with a reliable way to "rate" every damn thing.
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WellPreserved wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:59 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:32 pm
Momto2boys973 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:05 pm That’s the thing: No.
The bill is talking about live shows that have a strong sexual content and therefore considered “adult live performances”. This has nothing to do with transgenderism, but because the bill was a response to a drag show that announced itself as a family event and yet had strong sexual content, progressives are making it about that. But this show was also banned for kids in Missouri, also had backlash in Tennessee and in Texas. This isn’t a Floridian war against transgenderism.

Thanks! I wanted to clarify before giving my long ass opinion.

Oh and Sally, Bacon, Flo,Wellsare free to quote me if they disagree with what I am saying because I genuinely want opinions different than mine.

But to me, this is another both sides poking the bear problem. The problem I have with the bill, it was confusing to me because it’s worded in a way that is trolling the trans community instead of a general statement about adult content. You (general) can’t do that and expect not to be called a homophobe.

But on the other hand, “Screwdolph the nipple deer man” is an adult title and as a host you are responsible to make sure the content is age appropriate. That’s something the law shouldn’t have to tell an adult IMHO. You can’t name stuff like that that to push the envelope and wonder why you’re getting backlash.

I also understand that we want to be open minded but I have been involved with the mental health community a lot this last year and there are valid concerns in terms of what a child is exposed to and the development of their mental health.

We need to have those conversations in a manner that is respectful. Not calling people’s stuff “fake genitals” and acting like people are wrong for having an issue with exposing kids to skits with racy titles.

Both extremes are wrong IMHO and there needs to be a more reasonable base representing both the straight and LGBT communities.

But I agree with y’all on the title of that skit. Straight or gay..it’s inappropriate.

Am I being fair?
I agree with most of what you stated and despite being generally okay with my kids seeing shows and films with sexual content when they were younger, I do find the content of the show posted as inappropriate for children. This was an event that was promoted as an "R rated" event, not recommended for children, and anyone under 18 must be accompanied by an adult but still out of 100s of attendees, several brought their children. DeSantis is trying basically trying to change the definition of adult entertainment (X-rated) when it comes specifically to Drag Shows and I think it's disingenuous for some to claim not all drag shows. With this Bill, venues, not performers or organizers, will be fined and with the vagueness of language in the Bill, what venue will host any drag show?

My other problem is DeSantis is basically saying that parents should not be trusted when it comes to their children (specifically drag shows) so Florida will step in and make those decisions for them. I find this a super slippery slope and while DeSantis can argue all day long that he for "parental rights" this ain't it.

I agree that children exposed to erotica can be harming to their mental health but wonder why DeSantis isn't changing rating for any other kind of entertainment or medium and making exceptions for certain live performances - "taken as a whole is without serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for the age of the child present?" So raunchy Shakespeare is okay but rauncy drag queens isn't? Where would Madonna masturbating on stage fall on the "raunchy" spectrum or on the artistic spectrum? That is what I mean about vague language.

I've been to a number of drag shows, some kid friendly and some not and the ones that weren't kid friendly got really bawdy, lol. But in almost all the drag shows I've been to, many of the performers were wearing prosthetic breasts so this language in the Bill also concerned me: "lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genital or breasts." Lewdness is really subjective and what about breasts that aren't prosthetic? Yup, this is targeting drag shows.

Also, if he is so concerned with protecting children's health and safety, why isn't there equal conversation around guns and violence which harms far more children than drag shows?
I agree. I asked for clarification because this is written in a way that targets transgenders and that serves no purpose other than putting a target on their back because extremists love to find loopholes in the law to harass people.

Yes, the double standard is ridiculous. No, I would not take a child to a gay bar but between fighting, shooting and wondering hands...I absolutely would NOT take a child to a night club full of pissy drunk straight men. A lot of straight clubs in rural areas don't even check ID and it has resulted in deadly or abusive consequences for minors.

So why no mention of this? No, kids shouldn't be exposed to sexual content, but southern night life has bigger problems that are a lot more urgent than drags shows.
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Thelma Harper wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:41 pm This was nothing more than to put a feather in his cap. There aren't even that many drag shows in the state of Florida.
Its not that many in Texas either, so the whole screwdolph thing isn't that common. Especially compared to the shit that goes on in straight events.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:23 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:59 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:32 pm

Thanks! I wanted to clarify before giving my long ass opinion.

Oh and Sally, Bacon, Flo,Wellsare free to quote me if they disagree with what I am saying because I genuinely want opinions different than mine.

But to me, this is another both sides poking the bear problem. The problem I have with the bill, it was confusing to me because it’s worded in a way that is trolling the trans community instead of a general statement about adult content. You (general) can’t do that and expect not to be called a homophobe.

But on the other hand, “Screwdolph the nipple deer man” is an adult title and as a host you are responsible to make sure the content is age appropriate. That’s something the law shouldn’t have to tell an adult IMHO. You can’t name stuff like that that to push the envelope and wonder why you’re getting backlash.

I also understand that we want to be open minded but I have been involved with the mental health community a lot this last year and there are valid concerns in terms of what a child is exposed to and the development of their mental health.

We need to have those conversations in a manner that is respectful. Not calling people’s stuff “fake genitals” and acting like people are wrong for having an issue with exposing kids to skits with racy titles.

Both extremes are wrong IMHO and there needs to be a more reasonable base representing both the straight and LGBT communities.

But I agree with y’all on the title of that skit. Straight or gay..it’s inappropriate.

Am I being fair?
I agree with most of what you stated and despite being generally okay with my kids seeing shows and films with sexual content when they were younger, I do find the content of the show posted as inappropriate for children. This was an event that was promoted as an "R rated" event, not recommended for children, and anyone under 18 must be accompanied by an adult but still out of 100s of attendees, several brought their children. DeSantis is trying basically trying to change the definition of adult entertainment (X-rated) when it comes specifically to Drag Shows and I think it's disingenuous for some to claim not all drag shows. With this Bill, venues, not performers or organizers, will be fined and with the vagueness of language in the Bill, what venue will host any drag show?

My other problem is DeSantis is basically saying that parents should not be trusted when it comes to their children (specifically drag shows) so Florida will step in and make those decisions for them. I find this a super slippery slope and while DeSantis can argue all day long that he for "parental rights" this ain't it.

I agree that children exposed to erotica can be harming to their mental health but wonder why DeSantis isn't changing rating for any other kind of entertainment or medium and making exceptions for certain live performances - "taken as a whole is without serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for the age of the child present?" So raunchy Shakespeare is okay but rauncy drag queens isn't? Where would Madonna masturbating on stage fall on the "raunchy" spectrum or on the artistic spectrum? That is what I mean about vague language.

I've been to a number of drag shows, some kid friendly and some not and the ones that weren't kid friendly got really bawdy, lol. But in almost all the drag shows I've been to, many of the performers were wearing prosthetic breasts so this language in the Bill also concerned me: "lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genital or breasts." Lewdness is really subjective and what about breasts that aren't prosthetic? Yup, this is targeting drag shows.

Also, if he is so concerned with protecting children's health and safety, why isn't there equal conversation around guns and violence which harms far more children than drag shows?
I agree. I asked for clarification because this is written in a way that targets transgenders and that serves no purpose other than putting a target on their back because extremists love to find loopholes in the law to harass people.

Yes, the double standard is ridiculous. No, I would not take a child to a gay bar but between fighting, shooting and wondering hands...I absolutely would NOT take a child to a night club full of pissy drunk straight men. A lot of straight clubs in rural areas don't even check ID and it has resulted in deadly or abusive consequences for minors.

So why no mention of this? No, kids shouldn't be exposed to sexual content, but southern night life has bigger problems that are a lot more urgent than drags shows.
Oh I hear you. I live in a small town with lots of bars (nothing billed as a nightclub). Some are child friendly and some are definitely not! Hell, there's one that I wouldn't go to as a woman. I can't imagine a local taking their children there but I'm sure it's happened. I think a visitor would turn around and walk out pretty quickly if they had kids with them.

I was at an office event this evening and it got me thinking - too much idle time on my hands! I don't know about Florida or Texas, but here in Virginia I fill out about 30 event permit applications a year. All are focused on what if any kind of alcohol will be served, how will we keep under aged from drinking, and food safety. I've never had a permit application ask what kind of entertainment. Just wondering why Hyatt Regency was liable and not the event promoters and also wondering if event licenses in Florida are now also to include content of show?

Just wanted to add that one of our towns BEST annual events is a fundraiser Mardi Gras Party held at our local "road house" to benefit a private elementary school. Sit down Cajun dinner, multiple stages of music, dancing, costumes, and a drag show. Alcohol is served and our off duty police offer shuttle service so inebriated guests don't drive. It's child friendly and my son has attended every year since he was 11. I've filled out permits for that and never had to mention what bands were playing, what music would be played, or the fact that there was a drag show. Just how alcohol would be served, capacity, etc.
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SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:23 pm
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:59 pm
SouthernIslander wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:32 pm

Thanks! I wanted to clarify before giving my long ass opinion.

Oh and Sally, Bacon, Flo,Wellsare free to quote me if they disagree with what I am saying because I genuinely want opinions different than mine.

But to me, this is another both sides poking the bear problem. The problem I have with the bill, it was confusing to me because it’s worded in a way that is trolling the trans community instead of a general statement about adult content. You (general) can’t do that and expect not to be called a homophobe.

But on the other hand, “Screwdolph the nipple deer man” is an adult title and as a host you are responsible to make sure the content is age appropriate. That’s something the law shouldn’t have to tell an adult IMHO. You can’t name stuff like that that to push the envelope and wonder why you’re getting backlash.

I also understand that we want to be open minded but I have been involved with the mental health community a lot this last year and there are valid concerns in terms of what a child is exposed to and the development of their mental health.

We need to have those conversations in a manner that is respectful. Not calling people’s stuff “fake genitals” and acting like people are wrong for having an issue with exposing kids to skits with racy titles.

Both extremes are wrong IMHO and there needs to be a more reasonable base representing both the straight and LGBT communities.

But I agree with y’all on the title of that skit. Straight or gay..it’s inappropriate.

Am I being fair?
I agree with most of what you stated and despite being generally okay with my kids seeing shows and films with sexual content when they were younger, I do find the content of the show posted as inappropriate for children. This was an event that was promoted as an "R rated" event, not recommended for children, and anyone under 18 must be accompanied by an adult but still out of 100s of attendees, several brought their children. DeSantis is trying basically trying to change the definition of adult entertainment (X-rated) when it comes specifically to Drag Shows and I think it's disingenuous for some to claim not all drag shows. With this Bill, venues, not performers or organizers, will be fined and with the vagueness of language in the Bill, what venue will host any drag show?

My other problem is DeSantis is basically saying that parents should not be trusted when it comes to their children (specifically drag shows) so Florida will step in and make those decisions for them. I find this a super slippery slope and while DeSantis can argue all day long that he for "parental rights" this ain't it.

I agree that children exposed to erotica can be harming to their mental health but wonder why DeSantis isn't changing rating for any other kind of entertainment or medium and making exceptions for certain live performances - "taken as a whole is without serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for the age of the child present?" So raunchy Shakespeare is okay but rauncy drag queens isn't? Where would Madonna masturbating on stage fall on the "raunchy" spectrum or on the artistic spectrum? That is what I mean about vague language.

I've been to a number of drag shows, some kid friendly and some not and the ones that weren't kid friendly got really bawdy, lol. But in almost all the drag shows I've been to, many of the performers were wearing prosthetic breasts so this language in the Bill also concerned me: "lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genital or breasts." Lewdness is really subjective and what about breasts that aren't prosthetic? Yup, this is targeting drag shows.

Also, if he is so concerned with protecting children's health and safety, why isn't there equal conversation around guns and violence which harms far more children than drag shows?
I agree. I asked for clarification because this is written in a way that targets transgenders and that serves no purpose other than putting a target on their back because extremists love to find loopholes in the law to harass people.

Yes, the double standard is ridiculous. No, I would not take a child to a gay bar but between fighting, shooting and wondering hands...I absolutely would NOT take a child to a night club full of pissy drunk straight men. A lot of straight clubs in rural areas don't even check ID and it has resulted in deadly or abusive consequences for minors.

So why no mention of this? No, kids shouldn't be exposed to sexual content, but southern night life has bigger problems that are a lot more urgent than drags shows.
Because it’s already the rule… kids aren’t allowed at night clubs or straight bars or strip clubs or even most comedy shows…

Adult nightlife has historically always been held for adults…
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