Trashy Republicans have taken over the party

[Valentina327]

I am sure everyone has different opinions as far as what it means and it’s hard to explain..but it’s basically when you’re reached a level of enlightenment as far as racism/black social issues. It’s new term but its not a new concept or movement that recently started and it’s the same complaints people have had with liberals since the Civil Rights Movement. It’s white liberal extremists mainly and they exploit minorities/identity politics for political gain and they don’t have boundaries.

A few examples

- Far left extremists who claimed to protect Black and Brown people (who did not ask or need them) but it was just an excuse for violence towards Trump supporters over politics.

- The overzealous pandering and identity politics facilitates a “ the boy who cried wolf” environment which is also extremely counterproductive.

- Black community asked for police reform but the goal post was moved so we got the Dixie Chicks changing their name, people fighting over pancake syrup and harassing people with cancel culture.


And when you (general) bring this to their attention, they either nitpick what you’re saying to deny it’s a problem or start blaming conservatives instead of genuinely trying to understand.

That’s why a lot of times minorities (not just Black) just tell white peoples to stay out of stuff because a it’s draining and nothing gets accomplished because the chaos takes over everything.

I’m not saying that’s right and some of these kids go too far with the safe spaces but that is how they have been F***ing up for decades.

YW! Yes! I was saying that the other day. I went to NY, MS and Hawaii over the course of 4 months and it was like I was in different countries. It does help when we all talk about our little corners but I have personally gained a lot from it.

That was a great explanation.

Thanks, I am trying to explain in a way that doesn’t come off racist because it’s not all white people but we are gonna have to have conversations like this without fighting to get anywhere.

That is 110% the problem. Everyone gets bent out of shape and immediately the screaming starts. People just need to calm down and listen and learn. Starting with our "lawmakers". It's so frustrating to watch.

[Momto2boys973]

I think your view is beautiful… but sadly, not realistic. You say that poverty doesn’t make people more industrious and that having the basic needs encourages them to that, but reality shows otherwise. Overall, people aren’t satisfied with “the basics”. You hand down “the basics” all free and clear and it’s just a matter of minutes before that person feels they deserve more- for free.
Because “the basics” then change. In a rights-centers society, the “needs” and the “rights” tend to increase more than the “duties” and the “responsibilities”.
Whether good or bad, we do live in a world where economy is an important factor. And you can choose to have quality things that require money or you can choose inferior and mediocre things for free. You can’t demand both. Germany is already seeing the drawbacks of free college for all after just 9 years. Handing out things for free is obviously not the answer.

We should be working hard to change this. It's not unfeasible to make it so that everyone can afford a basic good life. Every person who we allow to grow up hungry, uneducated and bored becomes a risk factor.

People also need to put forth the effort to create the circumstances that allow them to live a life that is fulfilling on their terms. There are many individuals that don't feel they need to make an effort, that they should just be afforded a good life simply existing. That's not right, when others have to work toward that good life. Those taking steps toward living their fulfilling life shouldn't have to carry that dead weight on their backs. We get out of life what we put into it.

Valentina, thanks for speaking with me. I don't disagree with your sentiment but I would like to discuss the means.

People also need to put forth the effort to create the circumstances that allow them to live a life that is fulfilling on their terms.

Yes, but we can get people to put in more effort by giving them more to start with. People will always have to do more and risk more to get more fulfillment out of life, of course. But having people live in desperation does not make this happen more.

It works better if everyone has a basic, solid bottom to start from, which includes a full education, a home and food, and chances to grow. Does anyone really deserve less than that? Especially considering that most people get the circumstances of their parents as their starting line, which doesn't reflect their own effort at all. Who is their hunger helping?



There are many individuals that don't feel they need to make an effort, that they should just be afforded a good life simply existing.

There are very few people like this. Most people who get assistance work, and most don't remain on it very long. Most people who don't work, can't, because of mental issues or health issues or disabilities, local declines, etc. There are very few who, given a real education and a real chance to do something they are interested in, would rather sit home.

Secondly, poverty does not force people to be more industrious, it does the opposite. It denies people who want to be industrious by providing few good opportunities. If what you want is people working, social support is how you get it.

Lastly, there are always just a few seemingly useless hangers-on, but they don't cost much and they are available if you need to move a couch.



That's not right, when others have to work toward that good life.

It is right to provide people the tools they need to work toward that good life. People can grow and create better circumstances for a life that is more fulfilling on their terms from there.


Those taking steps toward living their fulfilling life shouldn't have to carry that dead weight on their backs.

First of all, it's a pretty light weight. Less than 15% of our spending goes to helping those in poverty and our public education budgets are thin. We could easily spend more which is being wasted elsewhere on getting people in the game, without affecting your bottom line at all. And what could be a better investment than that?

Secondly, you are going to carry that dead weight no matter what. You are going to carry it in higher crime and more prisons and more social services and more addiction and more people living in the streets. You are going to pay about six times more for the social ills that result than you would have paid providing people with education, housing and opportunity instead. If what you want is less weight on your back, you can get better results for bargain basement prices by helping people up front.

Thirdly, helping people is the moral thing to do. He ain't heavy, he's my brother.


So, I don't disagree with your outcomes, but creating an impoverished class has never maximized human potential. Instead it squanders it. We can build a harder-working and more compassionate society by helping everyone contribute.

Thanks again Valentina!

[SallyMae]

Are you saying that we must keep an impoverished class in order to force people to work?

I think your view is beautiful… but sadly, not realistic. You say that poverty doesn’t make people more industrious and that having the basic needs encourages them to that, but reality shows otherwise. Overall, people aren’t satisfied with “the basics”. You hand down “the basics” all free and clear and it’s just a matter of minutes before that person feels they deserve more- for free.
Because “the basics” then change. In a rights-centers society, the “needs” and the “rights” tend to increase more than the “duties” and the “responsibilities”.
Whether good or bad, we do live in a world where economy is an important factor. And you can choose to have quality things that require money or you can choose inferior and mediocre things for free. You can’t demand both. Germany is already seeing the drawbacks of free college for all after just 9 years. Handing out things for free is obviously not the answer.

[Deleted User 1990]

We dont have to, but there are people that will make every choice to keep themselves in an impoverished class.
It’s hard to ask the people giving their best and coming up short to carry the ones who refuse to help.

Are you saying that we must keep an impoverished class in order to force people to work?

I think your view is beautiful… but sadly, not realistic. You say that poverty doesn’t make people more industrious and that having the basic needs encourages them to that, but reality shows otherwise. Overall, people aren’t satisfied with “the basics”. You hand down “the basics” all free and clear and it’s just a matter of minutes before that person feels they deserve more- for free.
Because “the basics” then change. In a rights-centers society, the “needs” and the “rights” tend to increase more than the “duties” and the “responsibilities”.
Whether good or bad, we do live in a world where economy is an important factor. And you can choose to have quality things that require money or you can choose inferior and mediocre things for free. You can’t demand both. Germany is already seeing the drawbacks of free college for all after just 9 years. Handing out things for free is obviously not the answer.

[Della]

We dont have to, but there are people that will make every choice to keep themselves in an impoverished class.
It’s hard to ask the people giving their best and coming up short to carry the ones who refuse to help.

Are you saying that we must keep an impoverished class in order to force people to work?

I think your view is beautiful… but sadly, not realistic. You say that poverty doesn’t make people more industrious and that having the basic needs encourages them to that, but reality shows otherwise. Overall, people aren’t satisfied with “the basics”. You hand down “the basics” all free and clear and it’s just a matter of minutes before that person feels they deserve more- for free.
Because “the basics” then change. In a rights-centers society, the “needs” and the “rights” tend to increase more than the “duties” and the “responsibilities”.
Whether good or bad, we do live in a world where economy is an important factor. And you can choose to have quality things that require money or you can choose inferior and mediocre things for free. You can’t demand both. Germany is already seeing the drawbacks of free college for all after just 9 years. Handing out things for free is obviously not the answer.

What income range do these people fall under? What is "giving their best"?

[Deleted User 1990]

We dont have to, but there are people that will make every choice to keep themselves in an impoverished class.
It’s hard to ask the people giving their best and coming up short to carry the ones who refuse to help.

Are you saying that we must keep an impoverished class in order to force people to work?

What income range do these people fall under? What is "giving their best"?

Any income range where they’re working hard and not being able to afford the things they want to make a better life.

It means working a full time job.

[Della]

We dont have to, but there are people that will make every choice to keep themselves in an impoverished class.
It’s hard to ask the people giving their best and coming up short to carry the ones who refuse to help.

What income range do these people fall under? What is "giving their best"?

Any income range where they’re working hard and not being able to afford the things they want to make a better life.

It means working a full time job.

That's a non answer.

[Deleted User 1990]

What income range do these people fall under? What is "giving their best"?

Any income range where they’re working hard and not being able to afford the things they want to make a better life.

It means working a full time job.

That's a non answer.

That’s a basic answer, do with it what you will.

[Della]

Bob, for some reason I can't respond to you?

Really? I don’t know why that would be?
My front page is really glitchy today though

It's allowing me to respond to this comment, but not the previous one, lol.


by BobCobbMagob » Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:18 am

Thelma Harper wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:14 am
BobCobbMagob wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:44 am
Then you’ve lost sight when it comes to how most people live.

In this world… that is privileged wealth that opens up doors many people will never have:.
cgd5112 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:16 pm
$175K gross is not wealth.


It's not really that privileged depending on where and how an individual or family lives. It's nothing for a house to be $400K or $32K a year. And right off the top, the federal taxes alone will take $32K. Two or more vehicles, which is about standard now. Phones, School tuition/loans, food... it adds up to an easier living/surviving situation, but it's not what I think of when I think of privileged.
It is.

That amount of money means they know their children will be able to eat as much as they want every night…

It means they will never have to worry about whether or not the electric bill can be paid.

It means never having to worry that the water will get shut off,

It means knowing you can afford the gas you need to put into the car to get to work,

It means being lucky enough to have that car,

It means being able to go on vacation wherever you want, even if you have to save up to take the trip…

It means being able to afford to get to a family members funeral across the country if you suddenly need to…

It means being able to afford a loved ones funeral.

It means being able to go to whatever dance or event you want and look good showing up…

It means being able to get into any craft you want and afford all the materials whenever you want…

It means being able to afford that school tuition for your child so they will be three steps ahead of everyone else when the time comes for them to make a living on their own…



I think we’ve lost sight of what it means to be wealthy and privileged.
Most Americans, let alone people on earth can’t do that.




It doesn’t just mean Bentleys and mansions.


As I wrote earlier, it depends on where and how they live. For me and mine, it's a small fortune that I could partially use to build wealth.

To further our discussion from the other string in this post...Are these the people who are "Any income range where they’re working hard and not being able to afford the things they want to make a better life.

It means working a full time job."

[SallyMae]

We dont have to, but there are people that will make every choice to keep themselves in an impoverished class.

The lowest possible class does not have to be hungry, no healthcare, no resources, on the street. That serves no legitimate purpose.

It’s hard to ask the people giving their best and coming up short to carry the ones who refuse to help.

The problems of the people who are giving their best and coming up short are NOT being caused by the people who have even less, wanting too much. When people are giving their best and still coming up short, it's because the ones who have way, way more are keeping too much of what they make.

Wealth far beyond what is needed to feed, clothe and house every human already exists. Millions of people spent hundreds of years building the extravagant wealth of the industrial world. The money to prevent poverty does not need to come from others who are struggling. They also need a fairer share. It's easy to ask this from the people who are hoarding all the money. They can spare it and more without even noticing.