School removed a quote from a Holocaust survivor, unintentionally proving his point

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Momto2boys973
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I’m sorry, but it seems to me you have a very simplistic, black and white attitude and reality isn’t that simple. You can twist around anything you want, even the most heartfelt and loving sentiment into something sordid. That doesn’t mean that the majority of people don’t read quotes from others and get positively inspired by them. I’m actually surprised that you of all people can’t see what this quote means and the positive message of it and choose to think that people will misuse it for their own means. Yes, that could happen, but that doesn’t justify hiding it when it can do so much more positive things than negative.
Is that really what you’re teaching your daughter to do when she’s demeaned and attacked? To keep quiet, don’t bring it up and pretend nothing happened to keep the peace? To treat her bullies and oppressors the same way she treats those who love her and accept her for who she is?
Well, not me. Whenever I see antisemitism I don’t just keep quiet, roll over and not make waves. I speak up and I make it very clear that it’s something that shouldn’t be tolerated and swept under the rug to “keep te peace”. Sometimes in order to keep the peace, you have to stand up and challenge those who think it’s OK to demean others. And that’s what this quote means. I can’t believe you don’t see it when this is exactly what you should be teaching her to do.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:03 pm
Pjmm wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:51 am
BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:44 am

No. “ fast forward to today” means what is going on today, not Jan 6th. As In the world war we’re about to jump into.


Jan 6th occurred because of its own reasoning, and from what I know not really anything at all to do with Nazis.


Two totally different circumstances, but both ones in which the gung-ho believers caused much more shit than they solved.

We might not want to fan either of their flames right now.
Fascists are not going to be stopped because some fool removed a quote from a school. But if people believe the Holocaust never happened they could go forward unchecked.
They’re not going to be stopped… but we might as well not provoke them either.

The holocaust should absolutely be taught, but quotes without reference are often taken the wrong way.
❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
Deleted User 1990

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I don’t see the point of coloring in black and white pictures sometimes…


No, it’s not what I teach my kids… I teach them to fight back… to come at the bully or oppressors with much more force than they showed her.


I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the quote… I’m saying it needs to be taught with context attached. So that the kids who misread it don’t feel like fighting back.


There’s nothing wrong with actually teaching rather than just Willy Nilly putting up quotes hoping kids get it…
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:07 am I’m sorry, but it seems to me you have a very simplistic, black and white attitude and reality isn’t that simple. You can twist around anything you want, even the most heartfelt and loving sentiment into something sordid. That doesn’t mean that the majority of people don’t read quotes from others and get positively inspired by them. I’m actually surprised that you of all people can’t see what this quote means and the positive message of it and choose to think that people will misuse it for their own means. Yes, that could happen, but that doesn’t justify hiding it when it can do so much more positive things than negative.
Is that really what you’re teaching your daughter to do when she’s demeaned and attacked? To keep quiet, don’t bring it up and pretend nothing happened to keep the peace? To treat her bullies and oppressors the same way she treats those who love her and accept her for who she is?
Well, not me. Whenever I see antisemitism I don’t just keep quiet, roll over and not make waves. I speak up and I make it very clear that it’s something that shouldn’t be tolerated and swept under the rug to “keep te peace”. Sometimes in order to keep the peace, you have to stand up and challenge those who think it’s OK to demean others.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:03 pm
Pjmm wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:51 am

Fascists are not going to be stopped because some fool removed a quote from a school. But if people believe the Holocaust never happened they could go forward unchecked.
They’re not going to be stopped… but we might as well not provoke them either.

The holocaust should absolutely be taught, but quotes without reference are often taken the wrong way.
Momto2boys973
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But that’s the thing. It doesn’t have to be taught with the context, because those words transcend the context. You’re so determined to attach a quote to a context and you limit it to that, you can’t translate it into a different context and therefore it loses it’s significance for future generations who should be taught these concepts. You put it into a little of box of context and what will the kids get? “Oh, yeah, he should’ve spoken up about something like the Holocaust, where people got murdered. But why should I speak up if someone is bullied? Or against racism and homophobia?” You limit the positive things this quote is encouraging others to do.

As I said, some people will misuse those words. That’s reality. But much more people will use them for good. And those who will use it for bad don’t really need it for inspiration. Don’t throw the baby away with the bath water.

You can’t stop every evil individual or action and if that’s your goal, then you’ll fail miserably. You may even be doing the opposite. Because if you start taking quotes as this and nitpicking and limiting at them with the context, you won’t discourage those who are prone to misuse it, but you’ll likely not encourage those prone to use positively as much as if they’re allowed to put it in their own context.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:18 am I don’t see the point of coloring in black and white pictures sometimes…


No, it’s not what I teach my kids… I teach them to fight back… to come at the bully or oppressors with much more force than they showed her.


I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the quote… I’m saying it needs to be taught with context attached. So that the kids who misread it don’t feel like fighting back.


There’s nothing wrong with actually teaching rather than just Willy Nilly putting up quotes hoping kids get it…
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:07 am I’m sorry, but it seems to me you have a very simplistic, black and white attitude and reality isn’t that simple. You can twist around anything you want, even the most heartfelt and loving sentiment into something sordid. That doesn’t mean that the majority of people don’t read quotes from others and get positively inspired by them. I’m actually surprised that you of all people can’t see what this quote means and the positive message of it and choose to think that people will misuse it for their own means. Yes, that could happen, but that doesn’t justify hiding it when it can do so much more positive things than negative.
Is that really what you’re teaching your daughter to do when she’s demeaned and attacked? To keep quiet, don’t bring it up and pretend nothing happened to keep the peace? To treat her bullies and oppressors the same way she treats those who love her and accept her for who she is?
Well, not me. Whenever I see antisemitism I don’t just keep quiet, roll over and not make waves. I speak up and I make it very clear that it’s something that shouldn’t be tolerated and swept under the rug to “keep te peace”. Sometimes in order to keep the peace, you have to stand up and challenge those who think it’s OK to demean others.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:03 pm

They’re not going to be stopped… but we might as well not provoke them either.

The holocaust should absolutely be taught, but quotes without reference are often taken the wrong way.
❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
Momto2boys973
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Sadly, that’s how the Holocaust is being used right now. Holocaust denial and minimization are the tools antisemites and anti-Israel activists are using to promote their views. And American politicians are joining in.
Holocaust denial is a serious problem, and increasing alarmingly in Generation Z and millennials.

https://www.claimscon.org/millennial-study/

Gen Z and millennials made up 40% of the voters in the last mid term election. A good number of them even thinks that Jews caused the Holocaust. In fact, the number of gen Z and millennials who believed that was 20% in New York. Obviously certain politicians are pandering to that demographic…
Valentina327 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:54 am It's regarding a well documented, historical event. WTF is wrong with people? So I guess we're politicizing the Holocaust now is what this guy was thinking? You mean we don't ALL agree that it was horrific?
❤️🇮🇱 עמ׳ ישראל חי 🇮🇱❤️
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Well.. that’s it then.

I don’t think they transcend context AT ALL.

I think they’re extremely important words when they are within the context of who originally said them, but they can be violently misused by the wrong audience reading them.

You keep talking about what YOU would take those words to mean… you’re ignoring what OTHERS could take them to mean.

You add “Why I should stand up to homophobia “ like that’s something new… I’m saying my kids go to school with kids that are TAUGHT by their parents to ask themselves “ Why I should stand up to mortal sins “ when coming across people who are gay.



It definitely needs context. You’re refusing to see how it could be taken by people who don’t share your views.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:36 am But that’s the thing. It doesn’t have to be taught with the context, because those words transcend the context. You’re so determined to attach a quote to a context and you limit it to that, you can’t translate it into a different context and therefore it loses it’s significance for future generations who should be taught these concepts. You put it into a little of box of context and what will the kids get? “Oh, yeah, he should’ve spoken up about something like the Holocaust, where people got murdered. But why should I speak up if someone is bullied? Or against racism and homophobia?” You limit the positive things this quote is encouraging others to do.

As I said, some people will misuse those words. That’s reality. But much more people will use them for good. And those who will use it for bad don’t really need it for inspiration. Don’t throw the baby away with the bath water.

You can’t stop every evil individual or action and if that’s your goal, then you’ll fail miserably. You may even be doing the opposite. Because if you start taking quotes as this and nitpicking and limiting at them with the context, you won’t discourage those who are prone to misuse it, but you’ll likely not encourage those prone to use positively as much as if they’re allowed to put it in their own context.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:18 am I don’t see the point of coloring in black and white pictures sometimes…


No, it’s not what I teach my kids… I teach them to fight back… to come at the bully or oppressors with much more force than they showed her.


I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the quote… I’m saying it needs to be taught with context attached. So that the kids who misread it don’t feel like fighting back.


There’s nothing wrong with actually teaching rather than just Willy Nilly putting up quotes hoping kids get it…
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:07 am I’m sorry, but it seems to me you have a very simplistic, black and white attitude and reality isn’t that simple. You can twist around anything you want, even the most heartfelt and loving sentiment into something sordid. That doesn’t mean that the majority of people don’t read quotes from others and get positively inspired by them. I’m actually surprised that you of all people can’t see what this quote means and the positive message of it and choose to think that people will misuse it for their own means. Yes, that could happen, but that doesn’t justify hiding it when it can do so much more positive things than negative.
Is that really what you’re teaching your daughter to do when she’s demeaned and attacked? To keep quiet, don’t bring it up and pretend nothing happened to keep the peace? To treat her bullies and oppressors the same way she treats those who love her and accept her for who she is?
Well, not me. Whenever I see antisemitism I don’t just keep quiet, roll over and not make waves. I speak up and I make it very clear that it’s something that shouldn’t be tolerated and swept under the rug to “keep te peace”. Sometimes in order to keep the peace, you have to stand up and challenge those who think it’s OK to demean others.

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BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:57 am Well.. that’s it then.

I don’t think they transcend context AT ALL.

I think they’re extremely important words when they are within the context of who originally said them, but they can be violently misused by the wrong audience reading them.

You keep talking about what YOU would take those words to mean… you’re ignoring what OTHERS could take them to mean.

You add “Why I should stand up to homophobia “ like that’s something new… I’m saying my kids go to school with kids that are TAUGHT by their parents to ask themselves “ Why I should stand up to mortal sins “ when coming across people who are gay.



It definitely needs context. You’re refusing to see how it could be taken by people who don’t share your views.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:36 am But that’s the thing. It doesn’t have to be taught with the context, because those words transcend the context. You’re so determined to attach a quote to a context and you limit it to that, you can’t translate it into a different context and therefore it loses it’s significance for future generations who should be taught these concepts. You put it into a little of box of context and what will the kids get? “Oh, yeah, he should’ve spoken up about something like the Holocaust, where people got murdered. But why should I speak up if someone is bullied? Or against racism and homophobia?” You limit the positive things this quote is encouraging others to do.

As I said, some people will misuse those words. That’s reality. But much more people will use them for good. And those who will use it for bad don’t really need it for inspiration. Don’t throw the baby away with the bath water.

You can’t stop every evil individual or action and if that’s your goal, then you’ll fail miserably. You may even be doing the opposite. Because if you start taking quotes as this and nitpicking and limiting at them with the context, you won’t discourage those who are prone to misuse it, but you’ll likely not encourage those prone to use positively as much as if they’re allowed to put it in their own context.
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:18 am I don’t see the point of coloring in black and white pictures sometimes…


No, it’s not what I teach my kids… I teach them to fight back… to come at the bully or oppressors with much more force than they showed her.


I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the quote… I’m saying it needs to be taught with context attached. So that the kids who misread it don’t feel like fighting back.


There’s nothing wrong with actually teaching rather than just Willy Nilly putting up quotes hoping kids get it…
I'd like to see some examples of it being misread, even if you make them up. How do you think the quote could be misread?
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Thelma Harper wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:25 am
BobCobbMagob wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:57 am Well.. that’s it then.

I don’t think they transcend context AT ALL.

I think they’re extremely important words when they are within the context of who originally said them, but they can be violently misused by the wrong audience reading them.

You keep talking about what YOU would take those words to mean… you’re ignoring what OTHERS could take them to mean.

You add “Why I should stand up to homophobia “ like that’s something new… I’m saying my kids go to school with kids that are TAUGHT by their parents to ask themselves “ Why I should stand up to mortal sins “ when coming across people who are gay.



It definitely needs context. You’re refusing to see how it could be taken by people who don’t share your views.
Momto2boys973 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:36 am But that’s the thing. It doesn’t have to be taught with the context, because those words transcend the context. You’re so determined to attach a quote to a context and you limit it to that, you can’t translate it into a different context and therefore it loses it’s significance for future generations who should be taught these concepts. You put it into a little of box of context and what will the kids get? “Oh, yeah, he should’ve spoken up about something like the Holocaust, where people got murdered. But why should I speak up if someone is bullied? Or against racism and homophobia?” You limit the positive things this quote is encouraging others to do.

As I said, some people will misuse those words. That’s reality. But much more people will use them for good. And those who will use it for bad don’t really need it for inspiration. Don’t throw the baby away with the bath water.

You can’t stop every evil individual or action and if that’s your goal, then you’ll fail miserably. You may even be doing the opposite. Because if you start taking quotes as this and nitpicking and limiting at them with the context, you won’t discourage those who are prone to misuse it, but you’ll likely not encourage those prone to use positively as much as if they’re allowed to put it in their own context.

I'd like to see some examples of it being misread, even if you make them up. How do you think the quote could be misread?
Like the one above…

It could be read by someone who would take it to fight for gay rights and protect those who might be oppressed.

It could be read by someone who would take it to mean stand up against gay rights because they believe it’s “evil” and destroying our society.
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