Liberal and conservative groups want books banned

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Francee89
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Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:01 am
WellPreserved wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:52 am
Valentina327 wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:13 am I think maybe we need to calm down and reread the definition of "book banning"? They're parents making decisions on curriculum or what's put in the school library. Parents should participate in their child's education.

They're not taking these books off the shelf of public libraries, making Amazon remove them, or trying to remove them from circulation altogether.

If there are books that a parent finds of particular value, the parents can always obtain these books and have the child read them at home. Parents are supposed to be involved in their children's education, right? You never took trips to the public library after school and checked out books other than what was assigned in school? I know I and my classmates did. Kids get together and meet up at the library all the time. Learning isn't restricted just to school hours.

Children aren't ONLY allowed to read books that the school assigns nor are they relegated to ONLY read what they find in the school library.

In the case of the family geared books for example, parents maybe want to orchestrate how and when their children start to learn about that material. I most certainly wouldn't want my 6 year old child to just pick up a book at school about Johnny having two mommies. That's something I want to know that they're reading first of all, and second I want to be the one to have that discussion with them and be able to answer questions about the material. If they're reading this in school, how do I know what that teacher's views are on homosexuality? I wouldn't want some kind of bias put in their heads at a young age by a stranger.

Again, the school isn't raising these kids. The parents are still supposed to parent, so having a hand in curating reading material isn't an outrageous thing. I can see where parents are coming from on this.
It seems as if a majority of these book bans are happening in rural communities where kids don't "get together and meet up at the library" but rather only have access to books through their school.

I would be surprised if a 6 year old had never had interaction with a "Johnny" but what does it say to Johnny with two mommies that a school removes any mention of his family structure but leaves books portraying heterosexual families?
Wouldn't Johnnie's two mommies have explained the family structure to him already if he's living in it? At least in the homosexual couples I'm aware of, those talks are had from a very young age.
Why should Johnny be made to feel like his family is shameful and weird (by having books that show families like his banned at school), while his classmates in mom/dad families get to read endless books that show families like theirs? Is it really that hard for a parent to say something like “some kids have a mom and dad, some two moms/dads, some just a dad/mom, some live with grandparents/family members/etc., and we treat everyone nicely and with respect” if or when their kid reads a book featuring or actually meets another kid in one of these other family structures?
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WellPreserved wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:32 am
Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:01 am
WellPreserved wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:52 am

It seems as if a majority of these book bans are happening in rural communities where kids don't "get together and meet up at the library" but rather only have access to books through their school.

I would be surprised if a 6 year old had never had interaction with a "Johnny" but what does it say to Johnny with two mommies that a school removes any mention of his family structure but leaves books portraying heterosexual families?
Wouldn't Johnnie's two mommies have explained the family structure to him already if he's living in it? At least in the homosexual couples I'm aware of, those talks are had from a very young age.
Of course he would understand his family which is why he would see that mention of his type of family was omitted. Doesn't your six year old understand hers? Do you see any value at all in a book portraying both what's familiar and what's different or do you feel that the lesson should be omitted altogether and that there is no value in children learning about families outside of their own?
Yes, which is where parenting comes in - to provide life lessons, as I mentioned.

School is for basic skills. Parents provide wisdom and install values along the way of raising children. I don't see why a parent would be precluded from having these discussions with their children.

As I mentioned, there are things I'd rather discuss with my child than have a stranger discuss them. I'd want my children to reflect my values, not that of a stranger. Why does there HAVE to be a book? There's many things I learned from my parents that I didn't read in a book in grade school. A book at school isn't the only place to learn things.

Navigating in life isn't 100% learned in school, nor is there any rule saying it has to be. That's why the big people are around, to teach the little people how to move in the world as a decent human being. School is a supplement, sure, but parents can teach children too. At least that's what they should be doing. It all works together.
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Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:36 am
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:32 am
Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:01 am

Wouldn't Johnnie's two mommies have explained the family structure to him already if he's living in it? At least in the homosexual couples I'm aware of, those talks are had from a very young age.
Of course he would understand his family which is why he would see that mention of his type of family was omitted. Doesn't your six year old understand hers? Do you see any value at all in a book portraying both what's familiar and what's different or do you feel that the lesson should be omitted altogether and that there is no value in children learning about families outside of their own?
Yes, which is where parenting comes in - to provide life lessons, as I mentioned.

School is for basic skills. Parents provide wisdom and install values along the way of raising children. I don't see why a parent would be precluded from having these discussions with their children.

As I mentioned, there are things I'd rather discuss with my child than have a stranger discuss them. I'd want my children to reflect my values, not that of a stranger. Why does there HAVE to be a book? There's many things I learned from my parents that I didn't read in a book in grade school. A book at school isn't the only place to learn things.

Navigating in life isn't 100% learned in school, nor is there any rule saying it has to be. That's why the big people are around, to teach the little people how to move in the world as a decent human being. School is a supplement, sure, but parents can teach children too. At least that's what they should be doing. It all works together.
Why does a book HAVE to be banned? Nothing precludes parents from telling their kid that different types of families exist before they enter public school (where they very well might meet other kids with two mommies, not just read about it in books) . And if a parent doesn’t want to do that for whatever reason, why does that mean the school has to deprive every other kid of books reflecting diverse families? The fact that different types of families exist is simply a fact, not a value judgement.
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Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:36 am
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:32 am
Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:01 am

Wouldn't Johnnie's two mommies have explained the family structure to him already if he's living in it? At least in the homosexual couples I'm aware of, those talks are had from a very young age.
Of course he would understand his family which is why he would see that mention of his type of family was omitted. Doesn't your six year old understand hers? Do you see any value at all in a book portraying both what's familiar and what's different or do you feel that the lesson should be omitted altogether and that there is no value in children learning about families outside of their own?
Yes, which is where parenting comes in - to provide life lessons, as I mentioned.

School is for basic skills. Parents provide wisdom and install values along the way of raising children. I don't see why a parent would be precluded from having these discussions with their children.

As I mentioned, there are things I'd rather discuss with my child than have a stranger discuss them. I'd want my children to reflect my values, not that of a stranger. Why does there HAVE to be a book? There's many things I learned from my parents that I didn't read in a book in grade school. A book at school isn't the only place to learn things.

Navigating in life isn't 100% learned in school, nor is there any rule saying it has to be. That's why the big people are around, to teach the little people how to move in the world as a decent human being. School is a supplement, sure, but parents can teach children too. At least that's what they should be doing. It all works together.
Is school really just for basic skills? Is that what the Enlightenment Thinkers and the American Revolutionaries thought?
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Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:36 am
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:32 am
Valentina327 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:01 am

Wouldn't Johnnie's two mommies have explained the family structure to him already if he's living in it? At least in the homosexual couples I'm aware of, those talks are had from a very young age.
Of course he would understand his family which is why he would see that mention of his type of family was omitted. Doesn't your six year old understand hers? Do you see any value at all in a book portraying both what's familiar and what's different or do you feel that the lesson should be omitted altogether and that there is no value in children learning about families outside of their own?
Yes, which is where parenting comes in - to provide life lessons, as I mentioned.

School is for basic skills. Parents provide wisdom and install values along the way of raising children. I don't see why a parent would be precluded from having these discussions with their children.

As I mentioned, there are things I'd rather discuss with my child than have a stranger discuss them. I'd want my children to reflect my values, not that of a stranger. Why does there HAVE to be a book? There's many things I learned from my parents that I didn't read in a book in grade school. A book at school isn't the only place to learn things.

Navigating in life isn't 100% learned in school, nor is there any rule saying it has to be. That's why the big people are around, to teach the little people how to move in the world as a decent human being. School is a supplement, sure, but parents can teach children too. At least that's what they should be doing. It all works together.
This reminds me of my builder who led a mission trip to Alaska. Part of the trip was a cruise around the glaciers and he was sure to ask the tour guide to not mention the age of the glaciers because his church group were young earth believers.

Whether or not you approve, the fact is that there are different types of families. Asking that some be omitted is basically saying that you don't want your child to learn facts that make you uncomfortable which is the opposite of education.
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Quorra2.0 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:02 am
SouthernIslander wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:03 pm If we are taking die hard red states like Texas, there aren’t really a lot of liberal groups down here to really turn it into a competition or pissing match.


Also, banning books isn’t the only thing that has made change impossible and no one side takes all the blame.
When I was in school and lived in VA there were conservative groups or parents who challenged a lot of books. When I lived in CA it was liberal groups and parents that who challenged books. Anything with derogatory language, racial slurs, stereotyping, negative portrayals, etc. To me, those classics people see as outdated aren’t outdated because we still have inequity, we still have systemic issues. Cancel culture isn’t going to contribute anything positive towards changes and is just another way of whitewashing. Classics along with modern is a good combination. That what my kids schools have done, even more so with my ydd.

You are correct banning books isn’t the only thing that has made change impossible. BUT I do feel, if kids aren’t taught to think for themselves it’ll just contribute to the slowing down of change. I’m not sure I can put this into words. I don’t teach my kids color blindness(not just when it comes to race). It’s always bothered me. To me it’s like saying the only way you can accept people is by being blind to parts of them and I feel if you are color blind, become blind to parts of them, you miss things that still exist, and it’s hard to have compassion and understanding to the damage done that people still carry. And I 100% agree no one side takes all the blame and keeping score which only matters in games…this isn’t a game, it’s our society’s present and future. Sorry mini rant over.
When I went to school in MS, we basically were taught our history at home instead of depending on White America do to it because it always goes back to their agenda or how they think it should work. My grandfather also taught Japanese schools (separate from public) in Hawaii to preserve the culture in the US because it was the same challenge.

For example, Biloxi MS removed a book from the reading list per a Black parent’s request because the students weren’t mature enough to handle the language. People from all over the country went TF off on the school instead of simply understanding that there are other materials that may be more age appropriate and effective at generating a productive/respectful discussion on Black History.

It turned into what everyone else thought what the politically correct answer and started raising hell about a book that wasn’t the best fit for the audience, so history is still repeating itself at these kids’ expense and no one party or politician is to blame for getting us here.

I hope to see that change in my life time but I don’t think we are there yet unfortunately.

Also, I agree with you on the color blind. We shouldn’t treat each other different based on race but we still have to acknowledge that there are some differences that it is completely okay to acknowledge without getting attacked for it. So I think I see what you’re saying.
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