RIP Queen Elizabeth II

[Lemons]

Are you really trying to say that the UK participated in slavery during the Queen’s lifetime? Seriously? The UK ended slavery in 1807, last time I checked she wasn’t over 200 years old.

1807 - Britain passes Abolition of the Slave Trade Act, outlawing British Atlantic slave trade.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-slav ... 4920070322

Non English people who defend the country confuse me. It’s almost personal for some. There are no countries that have a worst history than England and their destruction and greed still effects poorer countries to this day.

The monarch personally created a massive slave trade and raked in millions on human trafficking. There is no other country ever, in the history of the world that has invaded as many countries as England. Pilfered valuables and enslaved native people to do the work needed to enrich England. So they need right the wrongs they did last century to poorer countries. No one expects them to go back centuries. How about during the Queen’s lifetime.

So just because other countries did it doesn’t excuse it. They did not inherit it they were active participants along with their parliament. And look at these so called royal family members, becoming more and more embarrassing. you might as well hire actors and open up the castles for tours.

I guess it's how you look at it. Rhodesia (Zimbabwe, Zambia and part of South Africa) didn't gain independence from Great Britain until 1965 - 13 years into QEII's reign. They didn't escape "white rule" until 1980. While I think there is an argument that this wasn't the fault of the Queen, it should be understandable that she is at least partially blamed and certainly not mourned in those countries.

I just wrote about that! I don’t agree that any argument that completely absolves the Queen is correct. The monarchy was very involved with the parliament and their decision making. If the Queen was appalled at these decisions and massive the human rights violations she could have campaigned parliament to stop it.

[DSamuels]

No, they did not start the slave trade, Portugal did. It’s interesting that Portugal found out that buying the slaves from the Africans was more cost effective than raiding and capturing people to be slaves.

In the fifteenth century, Portugal became the first European nation to take significant part in African slave trading. The Portuguese primarily acquired slaves for labor on Atlantic African island plantations, and later for plantations in Brazil and the Caribbean, though they also sent a small number to Europe. Initially, Portuguese explorers attempted to acquire African labor through direct raids along the coast, but they found that these attacks were costly and often ineffective against West and Central African military strategies.

https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/ ... lave_trade

While all this is interesting the point of this post was to talk about the death of the longest reigning monarch, not to denigrate her. If that’s your interest please make your own post. In no way was she perfect, but she was not evil either.

No. They started the slave trade got obscenely rich and then ended their own slavery early 1800’s. But they continued their invasions of countries that had valuable resources, colonized them. .
Just One example - Zimbabwe that England ruled until 1965. They went in there late 1800s,
The English White minority moved in, created a caste system, moved themselves into the urban areas, segregation was ordered , Black natives were moved to the outskirts stripped of their power. Like the US in earlier days the Black people were heavily taxed. Also violently abused. If anyone tried to fight back the settlers all had machine guns.

The British actually thought they were superior. They saw these countries as needing their religion and education taught to them, all the time absconding with the country’s most valuable assets.

The monarchy was just as involved as their parliament in this practice. And they profited monetarily too.

Are you really trying to say that the UK participated in slavery during the Queen’s lifetime? Seriously? The UK ended slavery in 1807, last time I checked she wasn’t over 200 years old.

1807 - Britain passes Abolition of the Slave Trade Act, outlawing British Atlantic slave trade.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-slav ... 4920070322

Non English people who defend the country confuse me. It’s almost personal for some. There are no countries that have a worst history than England and their destruction and greed still effects poorer countries to this day.

The monarch personally created a massive slave trade and raked in millions on human trafficking. There is no other country ever, in the history of the world that has invaded as many countries as England. Pilfered valuables and enslaved native people to do the work needed to enrich England. So they need right the wrongs they did last century to poorer countries. No one expects them to go back centuries. How about during the Queen’s lifetime.

So just because other countries did it doesn’t excuse it. They did not inherit it they were active participants along with their parliament. And look at these so called royal family members, becoming more and more embarrassing. you might as well hire actors and open up the castles for tours.

[Aletheia]

There are no countries that have a worst history than England and their destruction and greed still effects poorer countries to this day.

There is no other country ever, in the history of the world that has invaded as many countries as England.

The UK wasn't the top nation for as long as Egypt was. They didn't control as high a percentage of the known world as the Greeks (under Alexander) or the Romans did. They didn't have the massive power imbalances over their neighbours that China and America did in their days.

But the British empire did hit a 'sweet spot' of long duration and world-spanning travel that produced one of the empires with the biggest effect upon people and history, there has ever been. In other words, they were powerful.

A power they used for both good and evil (and, between that, much arrogance and self interest). I think you're correct about the number of invasions. There are been empires that produced more evil per person in the empire (looking at you, Belgium and the Aztec), and empires that produced greater atrocities (yes, Germany, but also Spain and let's not forget the USSR under Stalin). But, just by 'merit' of it having been very powerful, yes, the British did cause immense amounts of harm - and that's just down to the odds, with them being no better nor worse than average.

The British spread their judicial system of 'common law'... but also cause homosexuality of the criminalised in many countries in which it otherwise would not have been.

They spread the industrial revolution (which is a mixed blessing, if ever there was one).

They were at for forefront of abolishing slavery... but also spent a century or so profiting from the triangle trade (which did, indeed, fund many things in Britain that the British still enjoy the benefits of).


An interesting question is: if a different country had been the one with a strong navy and well positioned to benefit from the ideas that sparked the industrial revolution... would they have handled that power better or worse than Britain did?

[SouthernIslander]

No, they did not start the slave trade, Portugal did. It’s interesting that Portugal found out that buying the slaves from the Africans was more cost effective than raiding and capturing people to be slaves.

In the fifteenth century, Portugal became the first European nation to take significant part in African slave trading. The Portuguese primarily acquired slaves for labor on Atlantic African island plantations, and later for plantations in Brazil and the Caribbean, though they also sent a small number to Europe. Initially, Portuguese explorers attempted to acquire African labor through direct raids along the coast, but they found that these attacks were costly and often ineffective against West and Central African military strategies.

https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/ ... lave_trade

While all this is interesting the point of this post was to talk about the death of the longest reigning monarch, not to denigrate her. If that’s your interest please make your own post. In no way was she perfect, but she was not evil either.

No. They started the slave trade got obscenely rich and then ended their own slavery early 1800’s. But they continued their invasions of countries that had valuable resources, colonized them. .
Just One example - Zimbabwe that England ruled until 1965. They went in there late 1800s,
The English White minority moved in, created a caste system, moved themselves into the urban areas, segregation was ordered , Black natives were moved to the outskirts stripped of their power. Like the US in earlier days the Black people were heavily taxed. Also violently abused. If anyone tried to fight back the settlers all had machine guns.

The British actually thought they were superior. They saw these countries as needing their religion and education taught to them, all the time absconding with the country’s most valuable assets.

The monarchy was just as involved as their parliament in this practice. And they profited monetarily too.

Are you really trying to say that the UK participated in slavery during the Queen’s lifetime? Seriously? The UK ended slavery in 1807, last time I checked she wasn’t over 200 years old.



https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-slav ... 4920070322

I’m trying to understand the overall point that your side is arguing, so I’m not being sarcastic.

Are you saying Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline has no fault in slavery? Or are y’all upset that people are dancing on her grave and bashing her?

[Deleted User 1990]

No, they did not start the slave trade, Portugal did. It’s interesting that Portugal found out that buying the slaves from the Africans was more cost effective than raiding and capturing people to be slaves.

In the fifteenth century, Portugal became the first European nation to take significant part in African slave trading. The Portuguese primarily acquired slaves for labor on Atlantic African island plantations, and later for plantations in Brazil and the Caribbean, though they also sent a small number to Europe. Initially, Portuguese explorers attempted to acquire African labor through direct raids along the coast, but they found that these attacks were costly and often ineffective against West and Central African military strategies.

https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/ ... lave_trade

While all this is interesting the point of this post was to talk about the death of the longest reigning monarch, not to denigrate her. If that’s your interest please make your own post. In no way was she perfect, but she was not evil either.

No. They started the slave trade got obscenely rich and then ended their own slavery early 1800’s. But they continued their invasions of countries that had valuable resources, colonized them. .
Just One example - Zimbabwe that England ruled until 1965. They went in there late 1800s,
The English White minority moved in, created a caste system, moved themselves into the urban areas, segregation was ordered , Black natives were moved to the outskirts stripped of their power. Like the US in earlier days the Black people were heavily taxed. Also violently abused. If anyone tried to fight back the settlers all had machine guns.

The British actually thought they were superior. They saw these countries as needing their religion and education taught to them, all the time absconding with the country’s most valuable assets.

The monarchy was just as involved as their parliament in this practice. And they profited monetarily too.

I’m trying to understand the overall point that your side is arguing, so I’m not being sarcastic.

Are you saying Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline has no fault in slavery? Or are y’all upset that people are dancing on her grave and bashing her?

Queen Elizabeth herself had no fault in slavery…

People bringing it up are just trying to smear her name as her funeral was going on.


That’s shameful…


If people want to point fingers they can look at their own damn bloodlines too and find some evil.

[SouthernIslander]

No, they did not start the slave trade, Portugal did. It’s interesting that Portugal found out that buying the slaves from the Africans was more cost effective than raiding and capturing people to be slaves.



https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/ ... lave_trade

While all this is interesting the point of this post was to talk about the death of the longest reigning monarch, not to denigrate her. If that’s your interest please make your own post. In no way was she perfect, but she was not evil either.

I’m trying to understand the overall point that your side is arguing, so I’m not being sarcastic.

Are you saying Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline has no fault in slavery? Or are y’all upset that people are dancing on her grave and bashing her?

Queen Elizabeth herself had no fault in slavery…

People bringing it up are just trying to smear her name as her funeral was going on.


That’s shameful…


If people want to point fingers they can look at their own damn bloodlines too and find some evil.

So from what I am gathering, Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline was heavily involved in the slave trade and no one from the family ever apologized for it. You think the public should get over that and not mention it at all out of respect for her death.

Is that correct? Again, not being sarcastic or calling anyone a racist or anything…...just summarizing the points.

No family is perfect, I agree with you on that. However, I personally never had a problem apologizing on behalf of my elders or ancestors if they were wrong. I really don’t see any other way to resolve generational conflict without accountability.

As a slavery descendant myself, I don’t dance on anyone’s grave but I definitely understand not being a fan, even in her death.

[Momto2boys973]

But I don’t think anyone should apologize for something that happened when they weren’t even born. Apologies on behalf of someone else are meaningless.

When I was in college one of my best friends was German. Not of German descent, born and raised in Germany. She was here in Mexico because her dad was an executive for BMW and he was transferred here. At some point she apologized to me for the Holocaust. Maybe her grandparents and great grandparents were Nazi sympathizers, I don’t know, I don’t care. SHE wasn’t. And she shouldn’t feel the guilt and the need to apologize for the actions of others, especially not when she herself didn’t do anything to encourage those actions. I can understand a parent feeling the need to apologize for a child. They had a part in their education and their moral values. But what possible responsibility could my friend have in what her ancestors did?

No one should feel responsible or guilty for their ancestors and what they did. I was bullied in high school, I would never expect my bully’s kids apologize to my kids for it. They haven’t done anything to feel ashamed, guilty or responsible for. The apology should come from the wrong doer to the wronged, otherwise it’s really meaningless. What they can do is learn from their ancestors’ mistakes and do better. Not follow in those footsteps.
And the Royal family has indeed done that.

I’m trying to understand the overall point that your side is arguing, so I’m not being sarcastic.

Are you saying Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline has no fault in slavery? Or are y’all upset that people are dancing on her grave and bashing her?

Queen Elizabeth herself had no fault in slavery…

People bringing it up are just trying to smear her name as her funeral was going on.


That’s shameful…


If people want to point fingers they can look at their own damn bloodlines too and find some evil.

So from what I am gathering, Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline was heavily involved in the slave trade and no one from the family ever apologized for it. You think the public should get over that and not mention it at all out of respect for her death.

Is that correct? Again, not being sarcastic or calling anyone a racist or anything…...just summarizing the points.

No family is perfect, I agree with you on that. However, I personally never had a problem apologizing on behalf of my elders or ancestors if they were wrong. I really don’t see any other way to resolve generational conflict without accountability.

As a slavery descendant myself, I don’t dance on anyone’s grave but I definitely understand not being a fan, even in her death.

[DSamuels]

No, they did not start the slave trade, Portugal did. It’s interesting that Portugal found out that buying the slaves from the Africans was more cost effective than raiding and capturing people to be slaves.

In the fifteenth century, Portugal became the first European nation to take significant part in African slave trading. The Portuguese primarily acquired slaves for labor on Atlantic African island plantations, and later for plantations in Brazil and the Caribbean, though they also sent a small number to Europe. Initially, Portuguese explorers attempted to acquire African labor through direct raids along the coast, but they found that these attacks were costly and often ineffective against West and Central African military strategies.

https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/ ... lave_trade

While all this is interesting the point of this post was to talk about the death of the longest reigning monarch, not to denigrate her. If that’s your interest please make your own post. In no way was she perfect, but she was not evil either.

No. They started the slave trade got obscenely rich and then ended their own slavery early 1800’s. But they continued their invasions of countries that had valuable resources, colonized them. .
Just One example - Zimbabwe that England ruled until 1965. They went in there late 1800s,
The English White minority moved in, created a caste system, moved themselves into the urban areas, segregation was ordered , Black natives were moved to the outskirts stripped of their power. Like the US in earlier days the Black people were heavily taxed. Also violently abused. If anyone tried to fight back the settlers all had machine guns.

The British actually thought they were superior. They saw these countries as needing their religion and education taught to them, all the time absconding with the country’s most valuable assets.

The monarchy was just as involved as their parliament in this practice. And they profited monetarily too.

I’m trying to understand the overall point that your side is arguing, so I’m not being sarcastic.

Are you saying Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline has no fault in slavery? Or are y’all upset that people are dancing on her grave and bashing her?

I am talking about her, not her bloodline. I made this post as a tribute to who I thought was a remarkable woman. Now I remember why I rarely post in here.

[Deleted User 1990]

I’m trying to understand the overall point that your side is arguing, so I’m not being sarcastic.

Are you saying Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline has no fault in slavery? Or are y’all upset that people are dancing on her grave and bashing her?

Queen Elizabeth herself had no fault in slavery…

People bringing it up are just trying to smear her name as her funeral was going on.


That’s shameful…


If people want to point fingers they can look at their own damn bloodlines too and find some evil.

So from what I am gathering, Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline was heavily involved in the slave trade and no one from the family ever apologized for it. You think the public should get over that and not mention it at all out of respect for her death.

Is that correct? Again, not being sarcastic or calling anyone a racist or anything…...just summarizing the points.

No family is perfect, I agree with you on that. However, I personally never had a problem apologizing on behalf of my elders or ancestors if they were wrong. I really don’t see any other way to resolve generational conflict without accountability.

As a slavery descendant myself, I don’t dance on anyone’s grave but I definitely understand not being a fan, even in her death.

You think the moment of someone’s death is the right time to go over it all?

[DSamuels]

Queen Elizabeth herself had no fault in slavery…

People bringing it up are just trying to smear her name as her funeral was going on.


That’s shameful…


If people want to point fingers they can look at their own damn bloodlines too and find some evil.

So from what I am gathering, Queen Elizabeth’s bloodline was heavily involved in the slave trade and no one from the family ever apologized for it. You think the public should get over that and not mention it at all out of respect for her death.

Is that correct? Again, not being sarcastic or calling anyone a racist or anything…...just summarizing the points.

No family is perfect, I agree with you on that. However, I personally never had a problem apologizing on behalf of my elders or ancestors if they were wrong. I really don’t see any other way to resolve generational conflict without accountability.

As a slavery descendant myself, I don’t dance on anyone’s grave but I definitely understand not being a fan, even in her death.

You think the moment of someone’s death is the right time to go over it all?

Apparently some do. SMH