7 years in prison for calling a man, a man…

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Slimshandy
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Do you think it would be fair that if a man wants to be called a woman, you are forced to call him a woman or spend 7 years in prison?
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Let me rephrase the question: "should purposefully misgendering someone be a criminal charge?"

No, and it isn't, at least in the US. Depending on context, it can be considered hate speech but hate speech is constitutionally protected. If that hate speech is used in the context of harassment, incitement, defamation, etc., then that person can be charged.

Example: conservative media is rife with claims that Michele Obama is a man. Some conservatives continually use male pronouns when referring to her. While vile, that speech is constitutionally protected. Now if someone actively raised a posse to try to attack Michele Obama because "she's a man", they would be criminally guilty not only of incitement but because of their hate speech, an added charge of a hate crime which would carry additional time. I think that's fair.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
Slimshandy
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Why rephrase the question?


I’m only asking because of the controversy JK Rowling is caught up in.

She is purposely misgendering individual people who are making death threats/ rape threats/ harassing her online… she’s outright saying “I’m not going to call you women”

Now with the new hate crime law, it’s 7 years in prison…


Huge protests are now happening against this bill outside government buildings…
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:32 am Let me rephrase the question: "should purposefully misgendering someone be a criminal charge?"

No, and it isn't, at least in the US. Depending on context, it can be considered hate speech but hate speech is constitutionally protected. If that hate speech is used in the context of harassment, incitement, defamation, etc., then that person can be charged.

Example: conservative media is rife with claims that Michele Obama is a man. Some conservatives continually use male pronouns when referring to her. While vile, that speech is constitutionally protected. Now if someone actively raised a posse to try to attack Michele Obama because "she's a man", they would be criminally guilty not only of incitement but because of their hate speech, an added charge of a hate crime which would carry additional time. I think that's fair.
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Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:52 am Why rephrase the question?


I’m only asking because of the controversy JK Rowling is caught up in.

She is purposely misgendering individual people who are making death threats/ rape threats/ harassing her online… she’s outright saying “I’m not going to call you women”

Now with the new hate crime law, it’s 7 years in prison…


Huge protests are now happening against this bill outside government buildings…
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:32 am Let me rephrase the question: "should purposefully misgendering someone be a criminal charge?"

No, and it isn't, at least in the US. Depending on context, it can be considered hate speech but hate speech is constitutionally protected. If that hate speech is used in the context of harassment, incitement, defamation, etc., then that person can be charged.

Example: conservative media is rife with claims that Michele Obama is a man. Some conservatives continually use male pronouns when referring to her. While vile, that speech is constitutionally protected. Now if someone actively raised a posse to try to attack Michele Obama because "she's a man", they would be criminally guilty not only of incitement but because of their hate speech, an added charge of a hate crime which would carry additional time. I think that's fair.
Sorry, I thought it was just a weird generic question.

If you're talking about the new Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex", yes, I agree with transgender identity or intersex being included.

I have no doubt JK Rowling is "caught up in" it, lol. Misgendering transgender women does not help women's rights. Bullying and harassing transgender individuals does not help women's rights. JK Rowling has done nothing for women's rights but she sure seems to have a need to stir up a following. Frankly, I think in a couple of generations, she'll be remembered as that asshole who happened to write some good stories.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
Slimshandy
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WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:09 am
Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:52 am Why rephrase the question?


I’m only asking because of the controversy JK Rowling is caught up in.

She is purposely misgendering individual people who are making death threats/ rape threats/ harassing her online… she’s outright saying “I’m not going to call you women”

Now with the new hate crime law, it’s 7 years in prison…


Huge protests are now happening against this bill outside government buildings…
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:32 am Let me rephrase the question: "should purposefully misgendering someone be a criminal charge?"

No, and it isn't, at least in the US. Depending on context, it can be considered hate speech but hate speech is constitutionally protected. If that hate speech is used in the context of harassment, incitement, defamation, etc., then that person can be charged.

Example: conservative media is rife with claims that Michele Obama is a man. Some conservatives continually use male pronouns when referring to her. While vile, that speech is constitutionally protected. Now if someone actively raised a posse to try to attack Michele Obama because "she's a man", they would be criminally guilty not only of incitement but because of their hate speech, an added charge of a hate crime which would carry additional time. I think that's fair.
Sorry, I thought it was just a weird generic question.

If you're talking about the new Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex", yes, I agree with transgender identity or intersex being included.

I have no doubt JK Rowling is "caught up in" it, lol. Misgendering transgender women does not help women's rights. Bullying and harassing transgender individuals does not help women's rights. JK Rowling has done nothing for women's rights but she sure seems to have a need to stir up a following. Frankly, I think in a couple of generations, she'll be remembered as that asshole who happened to write some good stories.




So yes? Misgendering someone should be 7 years in prison?
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Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:18 am
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:09 am
Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:52 am Why rephrase the question?


I’m only asking because of the controversy JK Rowling is caught up in.

She is purposely misgendering individual people who are making death threats/ rape threats/ harassing her online… she’s outright saying “I’m not going to call you women”

Now with the new hate crime law, it’s 7 years in prison…


Huge protests are now happening against this bill outside government buildings…
Sorry, I thought it was just a weird generic question.

If you're talking about the new Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex", yes, I agree with transgender identity or intersex being included.

I have no doubt JK Rowling is "caught up in" it, lol. Misgendering transgender women does not help women's rights. Bullying and harassing transgender individuals does not help women's rights. JK Rowling has done nothing for women's rights but she sure seems to have a need to stir up a following. Frankly, I think in a couple of generations, she'll be remembered as that asshole who happened to write some good stories.




So yes? Misgendering someone should be 7 years in prison?
New Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex" and conviction carries a maximum sentence of 7 years. It's not important whether or not I agree with the law as it's Scottish law. What is important is whether or not Scottish voters agree with the law and it's apparent that they do.

You are smart enough to know that simply misgendering someone is not going to land a person in prison so why phrase it that way?

I am all for countries enacting laws that offer protection to marginalized groups so yes, I agree with the law with regards to Scotland.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
Slimshandy
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WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:41 am
Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:18 am
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:09 am

Sorry, I thought it was just a weird generic question.

If you're talking about the new Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex", yes, I agree with transgender identity or intersex being included.

I have no doubt JK Rowling is "caught up in" it, lol. Misgendering transgender women does not help women's rights. Bullying and harassing transgender individuals does not help women's rights. JK Rowling has done nothing for women's rights but she sure seems to have a need to stir up a following. Frankly, I think in a couple of generations, she'll be remembered as that asshole who happened to write some good stories.




So yes? Misgendering someone should be 7 years in prison?
New Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex" and conviction carries a maximum sentence of 7 years. It's not important whether or not I agree with the law as it's Scottish law. What is important is whether or not Scottish voters agree with the law and it's apparent that they do.

You are smart enough to know that simply misgendering someone is not going to land a person in prison so why phrase it that way?

I am all for countries enacting laws that offer protection to marginalized groups so yes, I agree with the law with regards to Scotland.
Because that is part of the issue… and I don’t think it’s apparent that they do since protests are now happening in front of government buildings, half of Scottish people disagree, and their elected officials are saying things like “The SNP MP Joanna Cherry has said she has no doubt that the new law “will be weaponised by trans rights activists to try to silence, and worse still criminalise, women who do not share their beliefs”.

Rowling is being threatened with 7 years in prison if she does not call A man who has been harassing her, a woman.




Many Scottish people are saying It’s really a first step in making telling the truth a crime…
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Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:51 am
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:41 am
Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:18 am





So yes? Misgendering someone should be 7 years in prison?
New Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex" and conviction carries a maximum sentence of 7 years. It's not important whether or not I agree with the law as it's Scottish law. What is important is whether or not Scottish voters agree with the law and it's apparent that they do.

You are smart enough to know that simply misgendering someone is not going to land a person in prison so why phrase it that way?

I am all for countries enacting laws that offer protection to marginalized groups so yes, I agree with the law with regards to Scotland.
Because that is part of the issue… and I don’t think it’s apparent that they do since protests are now happening in front of government buildings, half of Scottish people disagree, and their elected officials are saying things like “The SNP MP Joanna Cherry has said she has no doubt that the new law “will be weaponised by trans rights activists to try to silence, and worse still criminalise, women who do not share their beliefs”.

Rowling is being threatened with 7 years in prison if she does not call A man who has been harassing her, a woman.




Many Scottish people are saying It’s really a first step in making telling the truth a crime…
I'm not going to get into a debate of whether or not transgender women are women or whether or not they deserve protections. I'm backing out as I just don't have the energy but I'll leave you with this tweet:

"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
Slimshandy
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WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:58 am
Slimshandy wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:51 am
WellPreserved wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:41 am

New Hate Crime Act in Scotland which "creates a new crime of "stirring up hatred" relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex" and conviction carries a maximum sentence of 7 years. It's not important whether or not I agree with the law as it's Scottish law. What is important is whether or not Scottish voters agree with the law and it's apparent that they do.

You are smart enough to know that simply misgendering someone is not going to land a person in prison so why phrase it that way?

I am all for countries enacting laws that offer protection to marginalized groups so yes, I agree with the law with regards to Scotland.
Because that is part of the issue… and I don’t think it’s apparent that they do since protests are now happening in front of government buildings, half of Scottish people disagree, and their elected officials are saying things like “The SNP MP Joanna Cherry has said she has no doubt that the new law “will be weaponised by trans rights activists to try to silence, and worse still criminalise, women who do not share their beliefs”.

Rowling is being threatened with 7 years in prison if she does not call A man who has been harassing her, a woman.




Many Scottish people are saying It’s really a first step in making telling the truth a crime…
I'm not going to get into a debate of whether or not transgender women are women or whether or not they deserve protections. I'm backing out as I just don't have the energy but I'll leave you with this tweet:

I think maybe this is a question that does spark some true “ no, that shouldn’t be criminal “ feelings, but in support of transgender rights, it’s something that is unable to be vocalized…


It’s a good tweet though.
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After reading the discussion here, I understand why the question needed to be rephrased. That's all.
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