One of the biggest battles of the Civil War occurred in Manassas Virginia, the battle of bull run. It is a field. People go there with metal detectors to dig up war memorabilia. Kids run around and play. On the other side is a rifle shooting range.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:42 pmI agree with you on the long lasting emotional toll that visiting a death camp take - I've been to Dachau and Auschwitz. I am, however, offended by your description of our civil war battlefields as "It's a field. Maybe a gift shop." I can only assume that you have never visited one or if you had, you did not take part in the detailed tour, film, museum, or visit the surrounding landmarks. Is Omaha "just a beach"? While moved in a different way, I left the battlefields with long lasting emotional toll.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:58 amThe Nazis were quite different. America still has half a country that feels emotionally connected to the confederacy, so our after reactions were also quite different.Thelma Harper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:30 am
We have preserved battlefields and other things of a true historical context. Did taking down memorials to the Nazis erase history?
When we preserved all of these places, and recreate all of these places it is because that is the only way you truly care about history.
You learn about wars and battles and human rights atrocities all the time in museums but after that instance you move on with your day and do whatever else is on the vacation day.
When you visit a death camp, you see it, you hear screams, you feel it, you smell it, you are immersed in what happened until you are left cold with a pit in your stomach that won’t go away for days.
Have you ever been to a civil war battlefield that has been preserved? It’s a field. Maybe a gift shop.
We go about preserving history in very different ways.
National Trust for Historic Preservation Statement on Confederate Monuments
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Yes, when you’re in the south from what I have seen , there are more often than not battle sites and remembrance sites that are from the viewpoint of the confederacy.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:17 pm15 is impressive but I'm sorry that was your take-away. I just can't imagine.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:10 pmI’ve visited about 15. I’ve been on the tours and heard excitement and laughter coming from one of our guides as he described the battle and the cannon balls that were used. And half of the time the “museums” were from the confederacy viewpoint.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:42 pm
I agree with you on the long lasting emotional toll that visiting a death camp take - I've been to Dachau and Auschwitz. I am, however, offended by your description of our civil war battlefields as "It's a field. Maybe a gift shop." I can only assume that you have never visited one or if you had, you did not take part in the detailed tour, film, museum, or visit the surrounding landmarks. Is Omaha "just a beach"? While moved in a different way, I left the battlefields with long lasting emotional toll.
That doesn’t happen in Dachau.
It’s just not the same thing. Half of Germany is not flying a Nazi flag when they go to a sports game. Half of America still flies a confederate flag when they go places.
Half? Seriously?
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I grew up about 25 miles west of Manassas and went often as a kid (with school and with my parents). No way would either have allowed me to treat it as a trip to a park. It was always a really solemn experience.pinkbutterfly66 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:47 pmOne of the biggest battles of the Civil War occurred in Manassas Virginia, the battle of bull run. It is a field. People go there with metal detectors to dig up war memorabilia. Kids run around and play. On the other side is a rifle shooting range.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:42 pmI agree with you on the long lasting emotional toll that visiting a death camp take - I've been to Dachau and Auschwitz. I am, however, offended by your description of our civil war battlefields as "It's a field. Maybe a gift shop." I can only assume that you have never visited one or if you had, you did not take part in the detailed tour, film, museum, or visit the surrounding landmarks. Is Omaha "just a beach"? While moved in a different way, I left the battlefields with long lasting emotional toll.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:58 am
The Nazis were quite different. America still has half a country that feels emotionally connected to the confederacy, so our after reactions were also quite different.
When we preserved all of these places, and recreate all of these places it is because that is the only way you truly care about history.
You learn about wars and battles and human rights atrocities all the time in museums but after that instance you move on with your day and do whatever else is on the vacation day.
When you visit a death camp, you see it, you hear screams, you feel it, you smell it, you are immersed in what happened until you are left cold with a pit in your stomach that won’t go away for days.
Have you ever been to a civil war battlefield that has been preserved? It’s a field. Maybe a gift shop.
We go about preserving history in very different ways.
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde
Times have changed.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:10 pmI grew up about 25 miles west of Manassas and went often as a kid (with school and with my parents). No way would either have allowed me to treat it as a trip to a park. It was always a really solemn experience.pinkbutterfly66 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:47 pmOne of the biggest battles of the Civil War occurred in Manassas Virginia, the battle of bull run. It is a field. People go there with metal detectors to dig up war memorabilia. Kids run around and play. On the other side is a rifle shooting range.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:42 pm
I agree with you on the long lasting emotional toll that visiting a death camp take - I've been to Dachau and Auschwitz. I am, however, offended by your description of our civil war battlefields as "It's a field. Maybe a gift shop." I can only assume that you have never visited one or if you had, you did not take part in the detailed tour, film, museum, or visit the surrounding landmarks. Is Omaha "just a beach"? While moved in a different way, I left the battlefields with long lasting emotional toll.
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I know it has nothing to do with honoring anyone. That’s the reason our country has statues, that’s the problem.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:18 amLemons wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:39 amHitler’s bunker is preserved but hidden because they don’t want the whites supremacist nazis worshipping there. And you won’t find statues of Hitler, Goebbels or any other generals who fought in WW2.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:08 am
No, because we preserved the death camps and routinely teach people what happened there.
Do you know why it’s preserved and recreated in a Museum?
The reason has nothing to do with honoring anyone.
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Not the same as erecting a statue to Adolph Hitler though. We both know that. A statue says you honor this person. Keep history, yes. Don't make a statue of Robert L Lee or if you do be honest about him. We tried to leave the union, over what? Idk why we still honor these things. The only place I can imagine keeping intact is Stone Mountain because idk how you replace carvings in a mountain. But they could describe these men honestly and give lessons on how we've changed over the years.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:08 amThelma Harper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:01 amHow exactly is taking them down going to erase history? Has the Holocaust been erased?
No, because we preserved the death camps and routinely teach people what happened there.
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Not the same as erecting a statue to Adolph Hitler though. We both know that. A statue says you honor this person. Keep history, yes. Don't make a statue of Robert L Lee or if you do be honest about him. We tried to leave the union, over what? Idk why we still honor these things. The only place I can imagine keeping intact is Stone Mountain because idk how you replace carvings in a mountain. But they could describe these men honestly and give lessons on how we've changed over the years.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:08 amThelma Harper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:01 amHow exactly is taking them down going to erase history? Has the Holocaust been erased?
No, because we preserved the death camps and routinely teach people what happened there.
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It is not the same, but the two wars are not comparable as far as how each country felt after.Pjmm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:22 pmNot the same as erecting a statue to Adolph Hitler though. We both know that. A statue says you honor this person. Keep history, yes. Don't make a statue of Robert L Lee or if you do be honest about him. We tried to leave the union, over what? Idk why we still honor these things. The only place I can imagine keeping intact is Stone Mountain because idk how you replace carvings in a mountain. But they could describe these men honestly and give lessons on how we've changed over the years.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:08 amThelma Harper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:01 am
How exactly is taking them down going to erase history? Has the Holocaust been erased?
No, because we preserved the death camps and routinely teach people what happened there.
Germany wanted to destroy all relics of Hitler and make sure this type of war never happened again.
Americans were still split in two after the civil war ended when it came to people’s beliefs over how they should be governed, and they still remain split.
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What half? Even in Florida it's becoming less common to see the confederate flag. In the seventies I always used to see stupid bumper stickers against Yankees like the south were bitter losers. I don't anymore. And northerners are welcome now in rural towns. They bring tourism dollars if nothing else. Stupid rednecks do fly the flag but not like they once did.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:17 pm15 is impressive but I'm sorry that was your take-away. I just can't imagine.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:10 pmI’ve visited about 15. I’ve been on the tours and heard excitement and laughter coming from one of our guides as he described the battle and the cannon balls that were used. And half of the time the “museums” were from the confederacy viewpoint.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:42 pm
I agree with you on the long lasting emotional toll that visiting a death camp take - I've been to Dachau and Auschwitz. I am, however, offended by your description of our civil war battlefields as "It's a field. Maybe a gift shop." I can only assume that you have never visited one or if you had, you did not take part in the detailed tour, film, museum, or visit the surrounding landmarks. Is Omaha "just a beach"? While moved in a different way, I left the battlefields with long lasting emotional toll.
That doesn’t happen in Dachau.
It’s just not the same thing. Half of Germany is not flying a Nazi flag when they go to a sports game. Half of America still flies a confederate flag when they go places.
Half? Seriously?
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I found the "half" pretty non-sensical. I don't live in the deep south but I live in rural Virginia and while vocal, our flag carrying/wearing crowd is a small percentage of our population.Pjmm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:29 pmWhat half? Even in Florida it's becoming less common to see the confederate flag. In the seventies I always used to see stupid bumper stickers against Yankees like the south were bitter losers. I don't anymore. And northerners are welcome now in rural towns. They bring tourism dollars if nothing else. Stupid rednecks do fly the flag but not like they once did.WellPreserved wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:17 pm15 is impressive but I'm sorry that was your take-away. I just can't imagine.Frau Holle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:10 pm
I’ve visited about 15. I’ve been on the tours and heard excitement and laughter coming from one of our guides as he described the battle and the cannon balls that were used. And half of the time the “museums” were from the confederacy viewpoint.
That doesn’t happen in Dachau.
It’s just not the same thing. Half of Germany is not flying a Nazi flag when they go to a sports game. Half of America still flies a confederate flag when they go places.
Half? Seriously?
"The books that the world calls immoral are books that show its own shame." - Oscar Wilde