Trump signals growing weariness with ‘social distancing’ and other steps advocated by health officials

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WellPreserved
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Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:48 pm
WellPreserved wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:41 pm
Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:29 pm


A nationwide shelter in place while more robust testing capabilities are implemented (like South Korea’s) would seem to make a lot more sense than trying to allow some areas to resume normal life, with no way of having social distancing in places like offices, bars, restaurants and theatres, and no way to keep people from areas with higher rates of infection from travelling there and starting outbreaks.
Did you see today's Trump letter to governors about designating areas as low, medium, and high risk?
Yes. Seems insane.
Think what the map will look like and then color code high risk (blue), low risk (red), and medium risk (purple). This is not a medical strategy, it's a political one.
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highlandmum
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Both Canada and the US should have done this together weeks ago if not months ago. 1 - both countries should have had a shelter in place order for 4 weeks, 2 - closed the border between Canada and the US except for trade, 3 - only have food stores and drug stores open (no takeout food), 4 - close all public parks and beaches, 5 - provide every citizen with a set sum of money for staying home, 6 - direct flight traffic to a limited number of airports, 7 - screw civil liberties - anyone coming back into the country via car, airport, ship, train (what every) is directed to a hotel run by the government and must stay there for two weeks and be tested prior to leaving, if found negative they can now go home where they are under a shelter in place order for the duration of number 1, and 8 - number 7 remains in affect till the cases around the world have subsided.

Would this have worked - who the crap knows. Just pisses me off that people who come back from other countries are defying the order to "go straight home and stay there."
29again
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Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:31 pm
Valentina327 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:36 pm
Frau Holle wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:46 am
Yes, but there’s also a big difference in 70 thousand people dying and three and a half million people dying in the US alone which is what has been projected here.


There might be good reason to look into why some places are seeing death rates of 10% While Germany has a death rate of 0.4%


The difference is projected vs. actual. There are multitudes of vast differences between other countries and the US, so using other countries numbers I don't believe is accurate. Take China and Italy.

If they use numbers from Wuhan, that's ground zero first of all. We took precautions very early on, cut off incoming travel from China, etc.

China, by contrast, let it rage out of control and lied about how widespread it was. They jailed the scientist that discovered it and was sounding the alarm bells. They didn't try to arrest it early on, just kept stuffing the reality down.

By contrast, we have scientists closely tracking it and giving daily updates.

We also have better sanitation standards.

We don't have wet markets and things of that nature that will be spreading more disease.

We have better access to medical care than either China or Italy.

Death numbers are higher from Italy because the population is among the oldest worldwide. We know that this targets older folks and those folks likely have underlying health conditions. Which is know to carry more risk.

Italy also has DIRECT connectivity back and forth to China via Silkroad. That is an open port through which the disease has a direct and unfettered route.

We, by contrast, addressed it early, have much better sanitation, better medical access and are disconnected and distanced from China which is ground zero.

So, death projections based on other countries experience don't make a lot of sense.
Where are you getting that Americans have better medical access? WHO ranked Italy the second best healthcare system in the world. The United States in 37th: https://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html.

Once it was out of China, banning travel from there didn’t stop it. Italy banned travel from China before the United States did, and it didn’t stop the community spread once it was in their country already. Wuhan also forcibly quarantined people, while Italy is under a national lockdown - both helped slow the spread. The United States is doing it piecemeal, which won’t help at all.

Actually, Italy banned flights to/from Wuhan City ONLY on Feb. 23. A week later, they banned flights from China, anywhere in China. That corresponds to when the US banned flights from China.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/i ... rom-china/

One thing that definitely did not help Italy fight the virus was their fear of appearing racist.
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/italy ... a-chinese/
Expand your thinking
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29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm
Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:31 pm
Valentina327 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:36 pm


The difference is projected vs. actual. There are multitudes of vast differences between other countries and the US, so using other countries numbers I don't believe is accurate. Take China and Italy.

If they use numbers from Wuhan, that's ground zero first of all. We took precautions very early on, cut off incoming travel from China, etc.

China, by contrast, let it rage out of control and lied about how widespread it was. They jailed the scientist that discovered it and was sounding the alarm bells. They didn't try to arrest it early on, just kept stuffing the reality down.

By contrast, we have scientists closely tracking it and giving daily updates.

We also have better sanitation standards.

We don't have wet markets and things of that nature that will be spreading more disease.

We have better access to medical care than either China or Italy.

Death numbers are higher from Italy because the population is among the oldest worldwide. We know that this targets older folks and those folks likely have underlying health conditions. Which is know to carry more risk.

Italy also has DIRECT connectivity back and forth to China via Silkroad. That is an open port through which the disease has a direct and unfettered route.

We, by contrast, addressed it early, have much better sanitation, better medical access and are disconnected and distanced from China which is ground zero.

So, death projections based on other countries experience don't make a lot of sense.
Where are you getting that Americans have better medical access? WHO ranked Italy the second best healthcare system in the world. The United States in 37th: https://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html.

Once it was out of China, banning travel from there didn’t stop it. Italy banned travel from China before the United States did, and it didn’t stop the community spread once it was in their country already. Wuhan also forcibly quarantined people, while Italy is under a national lockdown - both helped slow the spread. The United States is doing it piecemeal, which won’t help at all.

Actually, Italy banned flights to/from Wuhan City ONLY on Feb. 23. A week later, they banned flights from China, anywhere in China. That corresponds to when the US banned flights from China.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/i ... rom-china/

One thing that definitely did not help Italy fight the virus was their fear of appearing racist.
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/italy ... a-chinese/
They banned Wuhan flights on January 23, and as your link says, there was a complete ban on China on January 4. That’s four days before the United States issued a ban that contained exceptions: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeatin ... idnt-work/

Why are you linking to an anti-immigrant conspiracy theory site? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-europe/

The virologist’s criticisms seem reasonable - not enough testing, not a quick enough comprehensive quarantine - which could apply to the United States too. I’d be interested in other sources about them being called racist for a proposed quarantine - he’s the only person who asserts that when I searched it.
29again
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Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:39 pm
29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm
Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:31 pm


Where are you getting that Americans have better medical access? WHO ranked Italy the second best healthcare system in the world. The United States in 37th: https://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html.

Once it was out of China, banning travel from there didn’t stop it. Italy banned travel from China before the United States did, and it didn’t stop the community spread once it was in their country already. Wuhan also forcibly quarantined people, while Italy is under a national lockdown - both helped slow the spread. The United States is doing it piecemeal, which won’t help at all.

Actually, Italy banned flights to/from Wuhan City ONLY on Feb. 23. A week later, they banned flights from China, anywhere in China. That corresponds to when the US banned flights from China.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/i ... rom-china/

One thing that definitely did not help Italy fight the virus was their fear of appearing racist.
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/italy ... a-chinese/
They banned Wuhan flights on January 23, and as your link says, there was a complete ban on China on January 4. That’s four days before the United States issued a ban that contained exceptions: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeatin ... idnt-work/

Why are you linking to an anti-immigrant conspiracy theory site? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-europe/

The virologist’s criticisms seem reasonable - not enough testing, not a quick enough comprehensive quarantine - which could apply to the United States too. I’d be interested in other sources about them being called racist for a proposed quarantine - he’s the only person who asserts that when I searched it.
When I went to research when Italy banned flights/travel, that was the best and earliest date I could find. Forbes won't let me read their site without disabling my ad-blocker, and I will not do that for any site. Is there ANY other site that tells me when Italy first banned travel? Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to find, yet it is....

I don't know anything about Voice of Europe... but it wasn't an alt-right site! Thing is, the mayor of Florence did encourage a "Hug A Chinese Person" for a while. Does it matter that the MSM didn't report on it, if it really did happen? I mean, there are other sources, but I doubt you would accept Breitbart, Western Journal, the Blaze, etc.
Expand your thinking
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29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 pm
Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:39 pm
29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm


Actually, Italy banned flights to/from Wuhan City ONLY on Feb. 23. A week later, they banned flights from China, anywhere in China. That corresponds to when the US banned flights from China.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/i ... rom-china/

One thing that definitely did not help Italy fight the virus was their fear of appearing racist.
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/italy ... a-chinese/
They banned Wuhan flights on January 23, and as your link says, there was a complete ban on China on January 4. That’s four days before the United States issued a ban that contained exceptions: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeatin ... idnt-work/

Why are you linking to an anti-immigrant conspiracy theory site? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-europe/

The virologist’s criticisms seem reasonable - not enough testing, not a quick enough comprehensive quarantine - which could apply to the United States too. I’d be interested in other sources about them being called racist for a proposed quarantine - he’s the only person who asserts that when I searched it.
When I went to research when Italy banned flights/travel, that was the best and earliest date I could find. Forbes won't let me read their site without disabling my ad-blocker, and I will not do that for any site. Is there ANY other site that tells me when Italy first banned travel? Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to find, yet it is....

I don't know anything about Voice of Europe... but it wasn't an alt-right site! Thing is, the mayor of Florence did encourage a "Hug A Chinese Person" for a while. Does it matter that the MSM didn't report on it, if it really did happen? I mean, there are other sources, but I doubt you would accept Breitbart, Western Journal, the Blaze, etc.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200131/italy- ... d-in-rome/
Francee89
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29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 pm
Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:39 pm
29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm


Actually, Italy banned flights to/from Wuhan City ONLY on Feb. 23. A week later, they banned flights from China, anywhere in China. That corresponds to when the US banned flights from China.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/i ... rom-china/

One thing that definitely did not help Italy fight the virus was their fear of appearing racist.
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/italy ... a-chinese/
They banned Wuhan flights on January 23, and as your link says, there was a complete ban on China on January 4. That’s four days before the United States issued a ban that contained exceptions: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeatin ... idnt-work/

Why are you linking to an anti-immigrant conspiracy theory site? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-europe/

The virologist’s criticisms seem reasonable - not enough testing, not a quick enough comprehensive quarantine - which could apply to the United States too. I’d be interested in other sources about them being called racist for a proposed quarantine - he’s the only person who asserts that when I searched it.
When I went to research when Italy banned flights/travel, that was the best and earliest date I could find. Forbes won't let me read their site without disabling my ad-blocker, and I will not do that for any site. Is there ANY other site that tells me when Italy first banned travel? Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to find, yet it is....

I don't know anything about Voice of Europe... but it wasn't an alt-right site! Thing is, the mayor of Florence did encourage a "Hug A Chinese Person" for a while. Does it matter that the MSM didn't report on it, if it really did happen? I mean, there are other sources, but I doubt you would accept Breitbart, Western Journal, the Blaze, etc.
They fully banned travel from China on January 31: https://www.voanews.com/science-health/ ... oronavirus

It it an alt-right site - the link establishes why, due to them peddling conspiracy theories and anti-immigrant rhetoric. A single municipal mayor promoting that - likely anticipating the exact anti-Chinese backlash that’s been seen across the world, despite people of Chinese heritage having nothing to do with it - isn’t proof there was a coordinated Italian federal government failure based on fear of appearing xenophobic.
29again
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Thelma Harper wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:07 pm
29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 pm
Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:39 pm


They banned Wuhan flights on January 23, and as your link says, there was a complete ban on China on January 4. That’s four days before the United States issued a ban that contained exceptions: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeatin ... idnt-work/

Why are you linking to an anti-immigrant conspiracy theory site? https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-europe/

The virologist’s criticisms seem reasonable - not enough testing, not a quick enough comprehensive quarantine - which could apply to the United States too. I’d be interested in other sources about them being called racist for a proposed quarantine - he’s the only person who asserts that when I searched it.
When I went to research when Italy banned flights/travel, that was the best and earliest date I could find. Forbes won't let me read their site without disabling my ad-blocker, and I will not do that for any site. Is there ANY other site that tells me when Italy first banned travel? Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to find, yet it is....

I don't know anything about Voice of Europe... but it wasn't an alt-right site! Thing is, the mayor of Florence did encourage a "Hug A Chinese Person" for a while. Does it matter that the MSM didn't report on it, if it really did happen? I mean, there are other sources, but I doubt you would accept Breitbart, Western Journal, the Blaze, etc.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200131/italy- ... d-in-rome/
Date was Jan 31, 2020 for that article.

AFP
news@thelocal.it
@thelocalitaly
31 January 2020
08:17 CET+01:00
coronavirus
Expand your thinking
Thelma Harper
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29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:45 pm
Thelma Harper wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:07 pm
29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 pm


When I went to research when Italy banned flights/travel, that was the best and earliest date I could find. Forbes won't let me read their site without disabling my ad-blocker, and I will not do that for any site. Is there ANY other site that tells me when Italy first banned travel? Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to find, yet it is....

I don't know anything about Voice of Europe... but it wasn't an alt-right site! Thing is, the mayor of Florence did encourage a "Hug A Chinese Person" for a while. Does it matter that the MSM didn't report on it, if it really did happen? I mean, there are other sources, but I doubt you would accept Breitbart, Western Journal, the Blaze, etc.
https://www.thelocal.it/20200131/italy- ... d-in-rome/
Date was Jan 31, 2020 for that article.

AFP
news@thelocal.it
@thelocalitaly
31 January 2020
08:17 CET+01:00
coronavirus
It's a link from the Forbes article. Just adding information.
Thelma Harper
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29again wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm
Francee89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:31 pm
Valentina327 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:36 pm


The difference is projected vs. actual. There are multitudes of vast differences between other countries and the US, so using other countries numbers I don't believe is accurate. Take China and Italy.

If they use numbers from Wuhan, that's ground zero first of all. We took precautions very early on, cut off incoming travel from China, etc.

China, by contrast, let it rage out of control and lied about how widespread it was. They jailed the scientist that discovered it and was sounding the alarm bells. They didn't try to arrest it early on, just kept stuffing the reality down.

By contrast, we have scientists closely tracking it and giving daily updates.

We also have better sanitation standards.

We don't have wet markets and things of that nature that will be spreading more disease.

We have better access to medical care than either China or Italy.

Death numbers are higher from Italy because the population is among the oldest worldwide. We know that this targets older folks and those folks likely have underlying health conditions. Which is know to carry more risk.

Italy also has DIRECT connectivity back and forth to China via Silkroad. That is an open port through which the disease has a direct and unfettered route.

We, by contrast, addressed it early, have much better sanitation, better medical access and are disconnected and distanced from China which is ground zero.

So, death projections based on other countries experience don't make a lot of sense.
Where are you getting that Americans have better medical access? WHO ranked Italy the second best healthcare system in the world. The United States in 37th: https://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html.

Once it was out of China, banning travel from there didn’t stop it. Italy banned travel from China before the United States did, and it didn’t stop the community spread once it was in their country already. Wuhan also forcibly quarantined people, while Italy is under a national lockdown - both helped slow the spread. The United States is doing it piecemeal, which won’t help at all.

Actually, Italy banned flights to/from Wuhan City ONLY on Feb. 23. A week later, they banned flights from China, anywhere in China. That corresponds to when the US banned flights from China.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/i ... rom-china/

One thing that definitely did not help Italy fight the virus was their fear of appearing racist.
https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/03/italy ... a-chinese/
From your first link:

"In addition, the Italian authorities have decided to expand a decision of January 23, to suspend flights to the city of Wuhan, now calling-off all flights to mainland China, until a further notice."

It wasn't February.
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