Women can now legally go topless in Utah, 5 other states, after federal ruling

[BionicBunny]

It's an opinion. My opinion. You don't have to agree with me. Most of those states are land locked - where the hell are they going to go topless? It's not like they can jog over to the nearest beach and get a tan. It's not appropriate for children to see. Modesty and morals go hand in hand. You lose one, you're going to give up another. Again, my opinion.

She doesn’t like it when you have a different opinion from hers. She won’t stop arguing with you. You will have to ignore her eventually.

I don't see it as arguing, yet There's nothing wrong with trying to understand other people's point of views that differ from yours. We're not going to agree on this issue, that's a given. I know I'm old fashion in my thinking compared to the open, modern age. So be it.

I just know in my past experiences with her she wouldn’t let up and when I said agree to disagree ( in our opinions) she had to be ignored because it wasn’t easy for her to walk away. And no answer was good enough.

[jas]

She doesn’t like it when you have a different opinion from hers. She won’t stop arguing with you. You will have to ignore her eventually.

I don't see it as arguing, yet There's nothing wrong with trying to understand other people's point of views that differ from yours. We're not going to agree on this issue, that's a given. I know I'm old fashion in my thinking compared to the open, modern age. So be it.

I just know in my past experiences with her she wouldn’t let up and when I said agree to disagree ( in our opinions) she had to be ignored because it wasn’t easy for her to walk away. And no answer was good enough.

Gotcha

[Francee89]

It's not inappropriate when a mother is feeding her child. It is if it's hanging out for no reason other than to say I can.
To answer your list - no, no, yes. Again - my opinion.

How does it become inappropriate just sitting there vs. being used to feed a child?

How is someone in a burka not more moral than someone in a one piece if modesty is more moral? Why aren’t men immodest showing their nipples while being topless? Do you think everyone should go back to wearing swim dresses? If so, should men wear full coverage swim suits too?

Feeding is feeding.
It's not the amount of clothing - it's what's covered. Are the private parts covered? You're good. They not? You're not.
Men are different - always have been.
I don't think swim dresses are a necessity. Nudity isn't.
And yeah - some men should.

I just don’t see the difference between a breast being out, feeding a baby, and a breast out sunbathing. Maybe it’s because I grew up with an Italian father spending some summers in Italy, but I don’t think non-sexual nudity is inappropriate.

How does a woman choosing to go topless, at the beach or in her backyard, contribute to the moral decline of society? I think what I’m trying to understand is why female modesty is somehow connected to morality, while male modesty isn’t.

[BionicBunny]

It's an opinion. My opinion. You don't have to agree with me. Most of those states are land locked - where the hell are they going to go topless? It's not like they can jog over to the nearest beach and get a tan. It's not appropriate for children to see. Modesty and morals go hand in hand. You lose one, you're going to give up another. Again, my opinion.

She doesn’t like it when you have a different opinion from hers. She won’t stop arguing with you. You will have to ignore her eventually.

Lol, I’m genuinely curious on the logic and reasoning behind the idea that women’s lack of modesty causes societal decline. I disagree with her opinion, but truly couldn’t care less that she has a different one. It’s bizarre that someone questioning an opinion, in a civil way, on a discussion board equals arguing to you.

To be clear, I wasn’t suggesting this was an argument. I was saying when you don’t like someone’s opinion you don’t stop arguing. Speaking from my experiences with you. I would believe that you were just curious if you actually accepted answers to your questions instead of arguing against them and saying you didn’t except that answer. Or maybe that’s just with me.
For example, I think of my first interaction with you when I expressed my opinion on how damaging many news media’s can be. You insisted on examples and I gave you several including the example of the teens that were on a class trip and approached by an Indiana protester who deliberately went face to face to one of the kids wearing a Magna hat. The media smeared the kids reputation and the kid started getting threats. You argued with me saying my examples were not good enough and I said agree to disagree then and you wouldn’t let up till I eventually had to ignore you.

[Valentina327]

How so? And how did women being able to go topless make them go further down the drain?

Men are allowed to be topless - are they being immodest when they show their nipples? Are societies where women cover up from head to toe, and are therefore more modest, better than ones where women can wear or not wear whatever they want? I don’t think most women will even do this (I wouldn’t), I just don’t see the correlation between women being legally forced to be modest and a better society.

It's an opinion. My opinion. You don't have to agree with me. Most of those states are land locked - where the hell are they going to go topless? It's not like they can jog over to the nearest beach and get a tan. It's not appropriate for children to see. Modesty and morals go hand in hand. You lose one, you're going to give up another. Again, my opinion.

I’m aware it’s your opinion. I’m curious about the logic behind it.

I’m sure they could jog over to a lake, or to their own backyard. We don’t agree on a breast, in a non-sexual context, being inappropriate for a child to see.

Is someone in a burka more moral than someone in a one piece swimsuit? Are men immodest, and therefore immoral, when they have their shirts off? Did society decline when women stopped wearing full swim dresses?

I know the left likes to pretend that there's no difference between men's and women's breasts BUT THERE IS. I'm so over that argument. You can say they're the same until you're blue in the face. Women's breasts are sexualized and men's aren't. That's why there's lingerie. That's why Victoria Secret is a huge conglomerate. Because we dress our tits up to look pretty and feel sexy. If our tits were not sexualized, these places would cease to exist. Do you see many men's lingerie shops to dress up their chests?

It's just a FACT of the society we live in and we need to operate within these parameters. It's REALITY which I know is a dirty word among certain groups. FEELINGS are not, nor have they ever been, facts.

They're going to fight to have their tits out in public then scream about rape culture, and me too, and this guy stood too close to me and made me uncomfortable and he looked at me too hard. They scream about men being perverts - well then let's take our tits out and wander around then get mad that men are going to look at them.

It's completely incongruous.

[Lemons]

And further down the drain we go.

What about women having the option to go topless (one that very few are likely to exercise) makes society go down the drain? Women have had the option for years in Europe - are they further down the drain?

When my daughter was four we were at a NYC playground where you run through the water. I didn’t have her bathing suit but there were a bunch of people from Amsterdam there and all the girls under 7 or so just had on underwear. If they weren’t there I wouldn’t have taken her top off because of Americans seeing everything as sexual. I was able to take her top off and have her blend in.

I’ve been at topless beaches in Miami and Martha’s Vineyard but no one brought it outside of the beach.

[jas]

How does it become inappropriate just sitting there vs. being used to feed a child?

How is someone in a burka not more moral than someone in a one piece if modesty is more moral? Why aren’t men immodest showing their nipples while being topless? Do you think everyone should go back to wearing swim dresses? If so, should men wear full coverage swim suits too?

Feeding is feeding.
It's not the amount of clothing - it's what's covered. Are the private parts covered? You're good. They not? You're not.
Men are different - always have been.
I don't think swim dresses are a necessity. Nudity isn't.
And yeah - some men should.

I just don’t see the difference between a breast being out, feeding a baby, and a breast out sunbathing. Maybe it’s because I grew up with an Italian father spending some summers in Italy, but I don’t think non-sexual nudity is inappropriate.
[highlight]
How does a woman choosing to go topless, at the beach or in her backyard, [/highlight]contribute to the moral decline of society? I think what I’m trying to understand is why female modesty is somehow connected to morality, while male modesty isn’t.

First off - there is male modesty. It's just not the chest. No one wants to see a man walking around with his penis hanging out. Why is that? It's not just a sexual organ, right? And we're not talking about being topless at the beach (what beach in some of these states?) and not even in a backyard. General public. There are nudist colonies where people are free to frolic as much as they want. Why do people who don't want to see someone naked, now have to? Because it's equal? It's not. Women have been objectified since the dawn of time. Do you really think this is a good idea? Do you think there won't be ramifications?
And it links to morality because once anything goes - you can't put it back in the box. Women go topless because men do. So what if men want to hang out? Tends to be the next step. Then what?

ETA - who said they were restricted to being topless at a beach or in their backyard? They're not. That's the issue. I don't care what someone does in their back yard. I do care if I'm walking down the street.

[BionicBunny]

It's an opinion. My opinion. You don't have to agree with me. Most of those states are land locked - where the hell are they going to go topless? It's not like they can jog over to the nearest beach and get a tan. It's not appropriate for children to see. Modesty and morals go hand in hand. You lose one, you're going to give up another. Again, my opinion.

I’m aware it’s your opinion. I’m curious about the logic behind it.

I’m sure they could jog over to a lake, or to their own backyard. We don’t agree on a breast, in a non-sexual context, being inappropriate for a child to see.

Is someone in a burka more moral than someone in a one piece swimsuit? Are men immodest, and therefore immoral, when they have their shirts off? Did society decline when women stopped wearing full swim dresses?

I know the left likes to pretend that there's no difference between men's and women's breasts BUT THERE IS. I'm so over that argument. You can say they're the same until you're blue in the face. Women's breasts are sexualized and men's aren't. That's why there's lingerie. That's why Victoria Secret is a huge conglomerate. Because we dress our tits up to look pretty and feel sexy. If our tits were not sexualized, these places would cease to exist. Do you see many men's lingerie shops to dress up their chests?

It's just a FACT of the society we live in and we need to operate within these parameters. It's REALITY which I know is a dirty word among certain groups. FEELINGS are not, nor have they ever been, facts.

They're going to fight to have their tits out in public then scream about rape culture, and me too, and this guy stood too close to me and made me uncomfortable and he looked at me too hard. They scream about men being perverts - well then let's take our tits out and wander around then get mad that men are going to look at them.

It's completely incongruous.

Exactly. That’s why if a woman’s breast is accidentally touched/ brushed up against the woman can claim sexual harassment. If a woman accidentally brushed up against a mans chest he wouldn’t think twice of it.

[Francee89]

It's an opinion. My opinion. You don't have to agree with me. Most of those states are land locked - where the hell are they going to go topless? It's not like they can jog over to the nearest beach and get a tan. It's not appropriate for children to see. Modesty and morals go hand in hand. You lose one, you're going to give up another. Again, my opinion.

I’m aware it’s your opinion. I’m curious about the logic behind it.

I’m sure they could jog over to a lake, or to their own backyard. We don’t agree on a breast, in a non-sexual context, being inappropriate for a child to see.

Is someone in a burka more moral than someone in a one piece swimsuit? Are men immodest, and therefore immoral, when they have their shirts off? Did society decline when women stopped wearing full swim dresses?

I know the left likes to pretend that there's no difference between men's and women's breasts BUT THERE IS. I'm so over that argument. You can say they're the same until you're blue in the face. Women's breasts are sexualized and men's aren't. That's why there's lingerie. That's why Victoria Secret is a huge conglomerate. Because we dress our tits up to look pretty and feel sexy. If our tits were not sexualized, these places would cease to exist. Do you see many men's lingerie shops to dress up their chests?

It's just a FACT of the society we live in and we need to operate within these parameters. It's REALITY which I know is a dirty word among certain groups. FEELINGS are not, nor have they ever been, facts.

They're going to fight to have their tits out in public then scream about rape culture, and me too, and this guy stood too close to me and made me uncomfortable and he looked at me too hard. They scream about men being perverts - well then let's take our tits out and wander around then get mad that men are going to look at them.

It's completely incongruous.

It’s a fact of the society we live in, but will that ever change if no one ever challenges those parameters? I’m not interested in going topless, but I truly don’t care if any woman wants to.

It’s not some kind of innate human fact that women can’t be topless in public - women have and do go topless in other societies, past and present. It’s a feeling that it’s wrong and inappropriate, lol. It’s on men to not sexually assault women no matter what they are or aren’t wearing.

[Francee89]

She doesn’t like it when you have a different opinion from hers. She won’t stop arguing with you. You will have to ignore her eventually.

Lol, I’m genuinely curious on the logic and reasoning behind the idea that women’s lack of modesty causes societal decline. I disagree with her opinion, but truly couldn’t care less that she has a different one. It’s bizarre that someone questioning an opinion, in a civil way, on a discussion board equals arguing to you.

To be clear, I wasn’t suggesting this was an argument. I was saying when you don’t like someone’s opinion you don’t stop arguing. Speaking from my experiences with you. I would believe that you were just curious if you actually accepted answers to your questions instead of arguing against them and saying you didn’t except that answer. Or maybe that’s just with me.
For example, I think of my first interaction with you when I expressed my opinion on how damaging many news media’s can be. You insisted on examples and I gave you several including the example of the teens that were on a class trip and approached by an Indiana protester who deliberately went face to face to one of the kids wearing a Magna hat. The media smeared the kids reputation and the kid started getting threats. You argued with me saying my examples were not good enough and I said agree to disagree then and you wouldn’t let up till I eventually had to ignore you.

It’s a discussion board - typically, when people have differences of opinion, they’ll discuss and debate the nuances of them, including why they think or don’t think examples or instances support what one person is stating. I’m not sure why that bothers you.