Michigan can suspend poor people's driver's licenses for unpaid fines: U.S. appeals court

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Poietes
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CockatooCrazyColt529 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 4:30 pm
Poietes wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 10:51 am If you can't afford the fine don't do the crime. I could afford a fine but I don't want to pay one so I don't park or drive illegally. I do accidentally speed once in a while, if I got pulled over then I face the consequences. Every singe person has the option to no break the law.
Have you ever had a light out (headlight, taillight, running lights, blinkers) that you just simply didn't have the money to repair?
No actually. I’ve never had a light out that I couldn’t afford. However as a poor college student I had my caliper literally fell off my car. The bolts broke. That was one expensive ass repair, I’ve had my tire get a hole (tires are a whole lot more expensive than a light) and I had it suck the life out of my battery because of a bad alternator and bought a new battery before replacing the alternator. Now, did it take me a while to save up money for those? It sure as shit did. I had to beg and plead rides to work, I rode my bike and walked to work. Next excuse please.
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Francee89
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Billie.jeens wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 3:16 pm
Francee89 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 2:36 pm
Billie.jeens wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 2:33 pm

So you, I, and the court agree that being poor should not make you exempt.
Excellent.
I certainly haven’t argued that they should be exempt, just that I think fines should be within a range, set proportionate to income.
Should prices be set for everything in that manner?
No. In this instance, if you’re trying to set fines as a deterrent for illegal parking or speeding, having the fine proportionate to income helps it actually serve its purpose.
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morgan wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 4:16 pm
Francee89 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 2:36 pm
Billie.jeens wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 2:33 pm

So you, I, and the court agree that being poor should not make you exempt.
Excellent.
I certainly haven’t argued that they should be exempt, just that I think fines should be within a range, set proportionate to income.
That would be called identity punishment.
How so? People are taxed based on their income level. Why couldn’t they be fined based on their income level?
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I thought this was standard in most areas? In my state unpaid fines will get your license suspended also. If you can afford to put gas in your car, insurance, and maintenance, you should be able to afford a parking ticket. If you really can't, be more careful not to do illegal things.
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ReadingRainbow wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 3:40 pm
Francee89 wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 9:42 pm
ReadingRainbow wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 7:58 pm Ok. But absolutely everyone who drives has the option of not speeding. Everyone has the option of using their blinker.

While ok... jackasses might park in the handicapped spot and get a ticket for it, everyone has the option of parking a little farther away if they don't have a disability.




For sure, but the point QOE is making is that the consequences for having these fines are disproportionately burdensome on the poor. If I get a $40 parking ticket, I’m momentarily irritated but it’s not the end of the world. For someone that can’t afford the $40 and who might incur late fees on the $40 they couldn’t afford in the first place trying to save up to pay for it, it’s a huge deal. Obviously people of every socioeconomic status have the option of obeying the regulations in the first place, but the consequences of not doing so are much more severe on the poor.
That may be true, but that is the situation no matter what the object or price is that a person needs to pay for.

Replacing a dishwasher is more impactful, paying for homeowners/renters insurance, paying for groceries...

But the difference is that these fines can be avoided completely if one follows the law.
The difference in this case is that fines are meant to be a deterrent. Someone making $20k/year in Michigan (roughly what one would earn on minimum wage) being fined $30 owes 7.8% of their weekly salary. For someone making $200k/year, that’s 0.78%. If the underlying goal here is to encourage people not to park illegally or speed, wouldn’t fining proportionately actually serve as a deterrent to those who can easily afford a $30 fine?
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In my state a typical parking ticket (or in my case a broken tail light) is $30 plus a $51 processing fee. Interest on unpaid tickets accrues at %6 a year. At least in our county, the clerk will work with an individual to come up with a payment plan and/or community service hours to pay for the unpaid fines. That makes sense, IMO. Taking away someones license does not.
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Poietes wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 6:27 pm
CockatooCrazyColt529 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 4:30 pm
Poietes wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 10:51 am If you can't afford the fine don't do the crime. I could afford a fine but I don't want to pay one so I don't park or drive illegally. I do accidentally speed once in a while, if I got pulled over then I face the consequences. Every singe person has the option to no break the law.
Have you ever had a light out (headlight, taillight, running lights, blinkers) that you just simply didn't have the money to repair?
No actually. I’ve never had a light out that I couldn’t afford. However as a poor college student I had my caliper literally fell off my car. The bolts broke. That was one expensive ass repair, I’ve had my tire get a hole (tires are a whole lot more expensive than a light) and I had it suck the life out of my battery because of a bad alternator and bought a new battery before replacing the alternator. Now, did it take me a while to save up money for those? It sure as shit did. I had to beg and plead rides to work, I rode my bike and walked to work. Next excuse please.
Don't bore the left with your poor white privilege problems.
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The government in Ontario does the same thing and even more. Here, a driver's license can be suspended for unpaid fines of any motor vehicle violation, and the registration can not be renewed for any parking tickets, red light camera tickets or similar. Furthermore, licenses can be suspended for child support arrears, driving with no insurance, etc. I believe there are actually 22 ways to get it suspended.
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Linda_Runs wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 10:40 am The government in Ontario does the same thing and even more. Here, a driver's license can be suspended for unpaid fines of any motor vehicle violation, and the registration can not be renewed for any parking tickets, red light camera tickets or similar. Furthermore, licenses can be suspended for child support arrears, driving with no insurance, etc. I believe there are actually 22 ways to get it suspended.
But....what about the poor people who can't afford to pay the ticket? What does Canada do about them?
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Linda_Runs wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 10:40 am The government in Ontario does the same thing and even more. Here, a driver's license can be suspended for unpaid fines of any motor vehicle violation, and the registration can not be renewed for any parking tickets, red light camera tickets or similar. Furthermore, licenses can be suspended for child support arrears, driving with no insurance, etc. I believe there are actually 22 ways to get it suspended.

Sure -


The emphasis in the story is that the court ruled that poor people are not above the law - I think.
“Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn’t know because they might reflect badly on Democrats."
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