In order to end racism....

[Frau Holle]

Why?

Why would the guy who comes in for 6 hours a day to do the random jobs deserve anywhere close to the amount of money that the person who devoted 30 years of his life and 85 hours a week to creating the business?

Capitalism does not provide for everyone. Capitalist economies cannot function without generous social aid. We should be trying to make ours more generous, for everyone at every level. Many other countries do, and they are doing better. They have better health, better education. It works.

Everyone from the middle class down in our system is fighting for scraps. We should also require that working people get massive pay raises. They are doing the actual production that is making a few rich. They deserve a much larger share of their own production.

Our current intense race crisis is a symptom of mass deprivation. When people are getting a fair share of their work and when there are generous social support systems, they are far less concerned about tribal markers like race.

[SallyMae]

Why?

Why would the guy who comes in for 6 hours a day to do the random jobs deserve anywhere close to the amount of money that the person who devoted 30 years of his life and 85 hours a week to creating the business?

Capitalism does not provide for everyone. Capitalist economies cannot function without generous social aid. We should be trying to make ours more generous, for everyone at every level. Many other countries do, and they are doing better. They have better health, better education. It works.

Everyone from the middle class down in our system is fighting for scraps. We should also require that working people get massive pay raises. They are doing the actual production that is making a few rich. They deserve a much larger share of their own production.

Our current intense race crisis is a symptom of mass deprivation. When people are getting a fair share of their work and when there are generous social support systems, they are far less concerned about tribal markers like race.

Why do you think it would be close?

[Anonymous 7]

POC are not put anywhere. People live where they do by their choices and actions. It is totally possible for anyone of any race to study hard and work hard for scholarships if need be to rise above their current situation. The key words are work/study hard to get ahead. Too many people want to play the victim card or the race card and use that as an excuse to fail. There are a lot of POC who have become successful, even rich and famous through hard work. It's possible and to say POC fail due to lack of hand outs and racism is nothing more than lies and really is insanely dehumanizing.

Not to mention the fact that people are encouraged to live segregated. POC are often put in poor neighborhoods with underfunded schools, etc.

Racism is ingrained into the fabric of American society. From neighborhoods, to schools, to jobs, to the justice system, etc. I doubt we’ll ever really get rid of it, at least in our lifetime. Affirmative action and similar programs attempt to address just a tiny bit of the problem.

It has nothing to do with not being willing to "bust your ass", it's about many people not being born into situations where they have any opportunity to "bust their ass." The kid who was born in a school district that is severely underfunded and overcrowded being they live in a low income neighborhood with low property taxes is not going to have the same shot at being accepted to those top universities as the kid born in the well funded school district whose parents can afford them every tutor and extra curricular that they would need.

For the same reason there are few qualified white men for these jobs. Not all that many people are willing to bust their asses getting multiple degrees from top schools to work 100 hours for years and years so they can one day, possibly, bring in a 7 figure income and work somewhat, but not substantially, fewer hours.

[SallyMae]

You can't sustain a society where only those who win scholarships get the tools to succeed. Why not just give the tools to succeed to everyone.

POC are not put anywhere. People live where they do by their choices and actions. It is totally possible for anyone of any race to study hard and work hard for scholarships if need be to rise above their current situation. The key words are work/study hard to get ahead. Too many people want to play the victim card or the race card and use that as an excuse to fail. There are a lot of POC who have become successful, even rich and famous through hard work. It's possible and to say POC fail due to lack of hand outs and racism is nothing more than lies and really is insanely dehumanizing.

Not to mention the fact that people are encouraged to live segregated. POC are often put in poor neighborhoods with underfunded schools, etc.

Racism is ingrained into the fabric of American society. From neighborhoods, to schools, to jobs, to the justice system, etc. I doubt we’ll ever really get rid of it, at least in our lifetime. Affirmative action and similar programs attempt to address just a tiny bit of the problem.

It has nothing to do with not being willing to "bust your ass", it's about many people not being born into situations where they have any opportunity to "bust their ass." The kid who was born in a school district that is severely underfunded and overcrowded being they live in a low income neighborhood with low property taxes is not going to have the same shot at being accepted to those top universities as the kid born in the well funded school district whose parents can afford them every tutor and extra curricular that they would need.

[Anonymous 7]

I'm not going to read 7 pages of opinions. I'll just give mine.

I think we should work towards an end goal of hopefully eliminating programs like those mentioned. But to expect to cut everything off and just let people suffer is ridiculous, Before we go to the extreme many of you want, let's fix the education system, fix our job prep programs.

How do many of you expect people to just improve to a level you want, after being cut off from the only $ they have coming in? That's kind of what you're saying (some of you) you want "them" to be cut off but you also want "them" to deal with it. How do they do that when education is the key and we have deliberately destroyed the inner city's schools? we underfunded, removed the budgets for books, teachers, etc. or for some of you (you know exactly who you are) it doesn't matter because the "them" you want to suffer is the "them" you don't consider worthwhile? Many complaining about social service funds really don't want "them" in their neighborhoods. They don't want "them" in the same places they go. They just want "them" to stop making static because it's disrupting their perfect little world.

Education is the key to equality and self-sufficient-ness. until we fix the public schools, nothing will change but to be completely honest, many don't want changes to occur, they just want "them" to either shut up about it or disappear.

That is my opinion. You do not need to agree. I' perfectly fine with you not agreeing.

I agree except for all the talk of "them" being the victims of truly everything. I don't know any of "them" who sit around complaining that their problems were caused by anyone else and they need social programs, which is really just welfare, for any past injustice or bad schools or that people are racist. They work sometimes two or more jobs and make sure their children get an education. They are actually disgusted by the idea of getting any sort of hand outs. We've had decades of programs that have done nothing but enable the idea that POC can't make it on their own. The fact that so many here are arguing that exact point is ludicrous.

[SallyMae]

I agree except for all the talk of "them" being the victims of truly everything. I don't know any of "them" who sit around complaining that their problems were caused by anyone else and they need social programs, which is really just welfare, for any past injustice or bad schools or that people are racist. They work sometimes two or more jobs and make sure their children get an education. They are actually disgusted by the idea of getting any sort of hand outs. We've had decades of programs that have done nothing but enable the idea that POC can't make it on their own. The fact that so many here are arguing that exact point is ludicrous.

Social services are not "hand outs." They are infrastructure. If you want to do business, you need good roads, an electrical grid, and a healthy and educated populace. Providing public education and health are standard in many countries and are not a handout, they are part of constructing a healthy society.

Furthermore, capitalism requires a pool of reserve labor for expansion and contraction and to put downward pressure on wages. That is the unemployed. As long as we use a system that creates reserve labor, we have to provide for those people in some other way. Otherwise they have nothing to put back into the economy and it recesses.

In a healthy system, everyone would have access to basics like full public education and healthcare, and people in the reserve pool would continue to have enough to get by regardless of employment status.

This is going to be more important than ever as automation takes over a lot of low-income jobs. We may come to a point where there are way more people than jobs. If we want to keep using capitalism at that point, we may have to institute a universal basic income, so that everyone can continue to participate in the economy even if there are fewer jobs. This would also allow people to take risks on developing new projects without risking homelessness.

Capitalism does not function without massive support from the society. If we want some people to climb the ranks and get very rich on hard work and grit, we have to make a society for them to do it in, where everyone else is not so deprived that they fight for scraps.

The alternative is what we are doing now and it is not working.

[mommy_jules]

Disagree. Racism isn’t caused by entitlement and advocacy programs, so how the hell does ending them help?

[Frau Holle]

I don't think it should be anywhere near close.

Why do you think they deserve so much more than the ones that have worked the hardest and longest?

Why?

Why would the guy who comes in for 6 hours a day to do the random jobs deserve anywhere close to the amount of money that the person who devoted 30 years of his life and 85 hours a week to creating the business?

Capitalism does not provide for everyone. Capitalist economies cannot function without generous social aid. We should be trying to make ours more generous, for everyone at every level. Many other countries do, and they are doing better. They have better health, better education. It works.

Everyone from the middle class down in our system is fighting for scraps. We should also require that working people get massive pay raises. They are doing the actual production that is making a few rich. They deserve a much larger share of their own production.

Our current intense race crisis is a symptom of mass deprivation. When people are getting a fair share of their work and when there are generous social support systems, they are far less concerned about tribal markers like race.

Why do you think it would be close?

[SallyMae]

Good. Nothing I propose even remotely suggests that they should be close.

However the bottom needs to be higher in order for society to function. It needs to be enough to get by. And the tools to succeed, like education and healthcare, have to be provided at saturation levels, so everyone gets more than enough of them.

ETA: There was also a time when the middle got a much greater share of their productivity, and that would help the economy just as much.

I don't think it should be anywhere near close.

Why do you think they deserve so much more than the ones that have worked the hardest and longest?

Why?

Why would the guy who comes in for 6 hours a day to do the random jobs deserve anywhere close to the amount of money that the person who devoted 30 years of his life and 85 hours a week to creating the business?

Why do you think it would be close?

[Valentina327]

No. Until we actually do have a society that is colorblind then we should be giving people of color extra support.

I actually think that is a more racist opinion.
It needs the basis of thinking that white people are smarter, stronger and more capable, and everyone else in the world needs much more help to get up to their level.

I've always thought the same thing. I've always looked at programs like that as damned insulting to be honest. To me, that's the entire attitude of male white supremacy right there, that is at the heart of these complaints. Oh here, we're your benevolent overlords. We'll throw you a few bones. You lowly stupid brown people and women. Because you're not capable of being as smart as we are. Here you go. No need to thank us.

I don't ever assume people are stupid or incapable. We never heard any of that crap growing up. I went to Catholic high school and my brown friends were pulling up in Porsches and BMW's. Their dads were doctors and lawyers. I'm pulling up in my 10 year old Dodge Dart that I had to buy myself by working 3 jobs over the summer after my sophomore year. With parents both working and not earning much above minimum wage. So I've never thought anyone was lower or stupider or needed handouts. My partner is a brother and he's got way more than I do! LOL