I'm taking my son to a mental health professional

[Lost]

I don't really know what's wrong with him.

He is 9.

He refuses to take responsibility for his actions. No matter what, even if I watched him do something, he insists he didn't do it. It never works. He is punished for wrongdoings and lying each time.

Lately he's trying what I think is manipulation. He'll try to convince me I told him he could do something that I didn't, or that he didn't make a mess I've asked him to clean that only he could have made, he says it was already there and I didn't notice. Again he refuses to acknowledge he's lying when I know he is. For example he could make a mess on the counter making food. I'll say DS clean up your mess. He'll say he didn't make that mess even though it wasn't there when he started making food and it'll be the same type of food je just made. I don't care that he made the mess. I care that he didn't clean it up when he's been taught how to. I never get upset for messes. I only get upset when you want to lie and say it wasn't yours.


He'll tell me someone hurt him when they didn't. At times I have been watching the kids together, then suddenly he screams and claims someone hit him. Again no one touched him. I was watching. It simply didn't happen but he thinks it did. It makes it hard to believe him when he's telling the truth about someone really hurting him.

And lastly he's been threatening to "hurt himself really bad" when asked to do simple chores. He has normal chores. All my kids do. But you'd think I'd asked him for his left arm the way he acts. When he threatens that it does not work and he is made to do his chores but he still keeps it up. It usually goes like this: Me: DS, take the garbage out please. DS: I'm gonna hurt myself really bad because I don't want to!

None of his tactics work. Ever. He's still punished when lying. He's still made to do chores. No one is punished when he claims they hit him so I don't know why he says they do if I have clearly seen they didn't. When he tries to convince me I said something that I didn't it doesn't work.

His biological father is the same in a lot of ways but he's never met his bio father. When we were together nothing was ever his fault either, and he'd come up with bizarre scenarios on who actually did what he did wrong or he'd twist it to seem like it was my fault. His Mom would back him up every single time so I'm sure that contributes too.

I just don't know what's wrong with DS except maybe he inherited some type of mental disorder from his bio father.

[Lilysma719]

I think you're doing the right thing. Good luck.

[Guest]

video tape him during these moments and play it back to him. Prove it to him each and every time that he is wrong.

[LiveWhatULove]

I M sorry, how frustrating for you.

Not sure if you are looking for advice. But I agree with counseling, but will add, if you have been consistent with punishment, you need to go a different route, as that obviously is not working.

And please, do not compare him with his father even in you mind, subconsciously this is an excuse or a prophecy you expect to him to fulfill. He is nine, turn this around.

[deltathree]

I M sorry, how frustrating for you.

Not sure if you are looking for advice. But I agree with counseling, but will add, if you have been consistent with punishment, you need to go a different route, as that obviously is not working.

And please, do not compare him with his father even in you mind, subconsciously this is an excuse or a prophecy you expect to him to fulfill. He is nine, turn this around.

Very well said.

[SeekingPeace]

I found this interesting:

Why Kids Lie and What Parents Can Do About It
How to help kids find honest alternatives to bending the truth.
Beth Arky

Call them fibs, whoppers or straight-up untruths: However you label them, kids are likely to lie somewhere along the way. While a younger child may conjure up an elaborate tale about how she couldn’t possibly have kicked a younger sibling, older kids may flat-out lie about doing their homework.

Sometimes the onset of lying is sudden and intense, reports Matthew Rouse, PhD, a clinical psychologist at the Child Mind Institute. “It’s a new thing where they were pretty truthful most of the time before and then suddenly they’re lying about a lot of stuff,” he says. This, of course, is concerning to parents. But if caregivers can understand why kids lie and be prepared to deal with the issue, the truth can come out.

Why kids lie
Most parents think children lie to get something they want, avoid a consequence or get out of something they don’t want to do. These are common motivations, but there are also some less obvious reasons why kids might not tell the truth — or at least the whole truth.

To test out a new behavior
Dr. Rouse says one reason children lie is because they’ve discovered this novel idea and are trying it out, just as they do with most kinds of behaviors, to see what happens. “They’ll wonder, what happens if I lie about this situation?” he says. “What will it do for me? What does it get me out of? What does it get me?’”

To enhance self-esteem and gain approval
Children who lack confidence may tell grandiose lies to make themselves seem more impressive, special or talented to inflate their self-esteem and make themselves look good in the eyes of others. Dr. Rouse recalls treating an eighth-grader who was exaggerating wildly about 80 percent of the time: “They were kind of incredible experiences that weren’t within the bounds of plausible at all.” For instance, the boy would say he’d gone to a party and everyone had started to chant for him when he came in the door.

To get the focus off themselves
Children with anxiety or depression might lie about their symptoms to get the spotlight off them, Dr. Rouse notes. Or they might minimize their issues, saying something like “No, no I slept fine last night” because they don’t want people worrying about them.

Speaking before they think
Dr. Carol Brady, PhD, a clinical psychologist and regular columnist for ADDitude magazine who works with a lot of kids with ADHD, says they may lie out of impulsivity. “One of the hallmarks of the impulsive type of ADHD is to talk before they think,” she says, “so a lot of times you’re going to get this lying issue.”

Sometimes kids can really believe they’ve done something and tell what sounds like a lie, Dr. Brady adds. “Sometimes they’ll really just forget. I have kids who say, ‘To tell you the truth, Dr. Brady, I thought I did my homework. I really thought I did. I didn’t remember I had that extra work.’” When this happens, she says, they need help supplementing their memory by using techniques such as checklists, time limits and organizers.

And then there are white lies
Just to make things even trickier, in certain situations parents might actually encourage children to tell a white lie in order to spare someone’s feelings. In this case, the white lie and when to use it fall under the umbrella of social skills.

What parents can do about lying
Both Dr. Rouse and Dr. Brady say it’s first important to think about the function of the lie. “When I’m doing an evaluation, there are questions on our intake forms where parents can check off whether the child lies,” Dr. Rouse says. “It’s something I might spend 20 minutes delving into. What kinds of lies, what are the circumstances of the lies?” He says behavioral treatments depend on the function of the lies and the severity of the problem. “There are no hard and fast guidelines,” he says. “Different levels mean different repercussions.”

Level 1 lie
When it comes to attention-seeking lying, Dr. Rouse says that, generally speaking, it’s best to ignore it. Rather than saying harshly, “That’s a lie. I know that didn’t happen to you,” he suggests a gentle approach where parents don’t necessarily have a consequence but they’re also not trying to feed it a lot of attention.

This is especially true if the lying is coming from place of low self-esteem. “So if they’re saying, ‘I scored 10 goals today at recess in soccer and everybody put me on their shoulders and it was amazing’ and you think it’s not true, then I would say don’t ask a bunch of follow-up questions.” For these kind of low-level lies that aren’t really hurting anyone but aren’t good behavior, ignoring and redirecting to something that you know is more factual is the way to go.

Level 2 lie
If that doesn’t work, Dr. Rouse says, parents can be more transparent about it by offering a mild reprimand. “I’ve had situations where it’s an inflated kind of fantastical type of lie,” he says. “I’ll have parents label it and call it a tall tale. If the child is telling one of these stories, a parent will gently say, ‘Hey, this sounds like a tall tale, why don’t you try again and tell me what really happened?’ ” It’s about pointing out the behavior and encouraging kids to try again.

Level 3 lie
If something is more serious, like older kids lying about where they’ve been or whether they’ve done their homework, parents can think about having a consequence. Kids should be clear that there will be repercussions for this kind of lie, so it’s not coming out of the blue. Like all consequences, Dr. Rouse recommends it should be something short-lived, not overblown, which gives the child a chance to get back to practicing better behaviors. Some examples: losing her phone for an hour or having to do a chore

Also, depending on the severity, there also has to be a component of addressing what they were lying about. If a child has said he didn’t have any homework all week and then the parent finds out he had homework every day, there needs to be some kind of consequence for the lying and he also has to sit down and do all the work. If he’s hit another child and lied about it, there’s a consequence for the lying and also for hitting. In this case, Dr. Rouse says, you would also have him write an apology letter to the other child.

[Guest]

I found this interesting:

Why Kids Lie and What Parents Can Do About It
How to help kids find honest alternatives to bending the truth.
Beth Arky

Call them fibs, whoppers or straight-up untruths: However you label them, kids are likely to lie somewhere along the way. While a younger child may conjure up an elaborate tale about how she couldn’t possibly have kicked a younger sibling, older kids may flat-out lie about doing their homework.

Sometimes the onset of lying is sudden and intense, reports Matthew Rouse, PhD, a clinical psychologist at the Child Mind Institute. “It’s a new thing where they were pretty truthful most of the time before and then suddenly they’re lying about a lot of stuff,” he says. This, of course, is concerning to parents. But if caregivers can understand why kids lie and be prepared to deal with the issue, the truth can come out.

Why kids lie
Most parents think children lie to get something they want, avoid a consequence or get out of something they don’t want to do. These are common motivations, but there are also some less obvious reasons why kids might not tell the truth — or at least the whole truth.

To test out a new behavior
Dr. Rouse says one reason children lie is because they’ve discovered this novel idea and are trying it out, just as they do with most kinds of behaviors, to see what happens. “They’ll wonder, what happens if I lie about this situation?” he says. “What will it do for me? What does it get me out of? What does it get me?’”

To enhance self-esteem and gain approval
Children who lack confidence may tell grandiose lies to make themselves seem more impressive, special or talented to inflate their self-esteem and make themselves look good in the eyes of others. Dr. Rouse recalls treating an eighth-grader who was exaggerating wildly about 80 percent of the time: “They were kind of incredible experiences that weren’t within the bounds of plausible at all.” For instance, the boy would say he’d gone to a party and everyone had started to chant for him when he came in the door.

To get the focus off themselves
Children with anxiety or depression might lie about their symptoms to get the spotlight off them, Dr. Rouse notes. Or they might minimize their issues, saying something like “No, no I slept fine last night” because they don’t want people worrying about them.

Speaking before they think
Dr. Carol Brady, PhD, a clinical psychologist and regular columnist for ADDitude magazine who works with a lot of kids with ADHD, says they may lie out of impulsivity. “One of the hallmarks of the impulsive type of ADHD is to talk before they think,” she says, “so a lot of times you’re going to get this lying issue.”

Sometimes kids can really believe they’ve done something and tell what sounds like a lie, Dr. Brady adds. “Sometimes they’ll really just forget. I have kids who say, ‘To tell you the truth, Dr. Brady, I thought I did my homework. I really thought I did. I didn’t remember I had that extra work.’” When this happens, she says, they need help supplementing their memory by using techniques such as checklists, time limits and organizers.

And then there are white lies
Just to make things even trickier, in certain situations parents might actually encourage children to tell a white lie in order to spare someone’s feelings. In this case, the white lie and when to use it fall under the umbrella of social skills.

What parents can do about lying
Both Dr. Rouse and Dr. Brady say it’s first important to think about the function of the lie. “When I’m doing an evaluation, there are questions on our intake forms where parents can check off whether the child lies,” Dr. Rouse says. “It’s something I might spend 20 minutes delving into. What kinds of lies, what are the circumstances of the lies?” He says behavioral treatments depend on the function of the lies and the severity of the problem. “There are no hard and fast guidelines,” he says. “Different levels mean different repercussions.”

Level 1 lie
When it comes to attention-seeking lying, Dr. Rouse says that, generally speaking, it’s best to ignore it. Rather than saying harshly, “That’s a lie. I know that didn’t happen to you,” he suggests a gentle approach where parents don’t necessarily have a consequence but they’re also not trying to feed it a lot of attention.

This is especially true if the lying is coming from place of low self-esteem. “So if they’re saying, ‘I scored 10 goals today at recess in soccer and everybody put me on their shoulders and it was amazing’ and you think it’s not true, then I would say don’t ask a bunch of follow-up questions.” For these kind of low-level lies that aren’t really hurting anyone but aren’t good behavior, ignoring and redirecting to something that you know is more factual is the way to go.

Level 2 lie
If that doesn’t work, Dr. Rouse says, parents can be more transparent about it by offering a mild reprimand. “I’ve had situations where it’s an inflated kind of fantastical type of lie,” he says. “I’ll have parents label it and call it a tall tale. If the child is telling one of these stories, a parent will gently say, ‘Hey, this sounds like a tall tale, why don’t you try again and tell me what really happened?’ ” It’s about pointing out the behavior and encouraging kids to try again.

Level 3 lie
If something is more serious, like older kids lying about where they’ve been or whether they’ve done their homework, parents can think about having a consequence. Kids should be clear that there will be repercussions for this kind of lie, so it’s not coming out of the blue. Like all consequences, Dr. Rouse recommends it should be something short-lived, not overblown, which gives the child a chance to get back to practicing better behaviors. Some examples: losing her phone for an hour or having to do a chore

Also, depending on the severity, there also has to be a component of addressing what they were lying about. If a child has said he didn’t have any homework all week and then the parent finds out he had homework every day, there needs to be some kind of consequence for the lying and he also has to sit down and do all the work. If he’s hit another child and lied about it, there’s a consequence for the lying and also for hitting. In this case, Dr. Rouse says, you would also have him write an apology letter to the other child.

None of that worked on my DD. She's 26 and still lies about things.

[SeekingPeace]

I feel for ya!
I feel bad for anyone who has to deal with lying. It is one of the most frustrating behaviors to deal with!

I found this interesting:

Why Kids Lie and What Parents Can Do About It
How to help kids find honest alternatives to bending the truth.
Beth Arky

Call them fibs, whoppers or straight-up untruths: However you label them, kids are likely to lie somewhere along the way. While a younger child may conjure up an elaborate tale about how she couldn’t possibly have kicked a younger sibling, older kids may flat-out lie about doing their homework.

Sometimes the onset of lying is sudden and intense, reports Matthew Rouse, PhD, a clinical psychologist at the Child Mind Institute. “It’s a new thing where they were pretty truthful most of the time before and then suddenly they’re lying about a lot of stuff,” he says. This, of course, is concerning to parents. But if caregivers can understand why kids lie and be prepared to deal with the issue, the truth can come out.

Why kids lie
Most parents think children lie to get something they want, avoid a consequence or get out of something they don’t want to do. These are common motivations, but there are also some less obvious reasons why kids might not tell the truth — or at least the whole truth.

To test out a new behavior
Dr. Rouse says one reason children lie is because they’ve discovered this novel idea and are trying it out, just as they do with most kinds of behaviors, to see what happens. “They’ll wonder, what happens if I lie about this situation?” he says. “What will it do for me? What does it get me out of? What does it get me?’”

To enhance self-esteem and gain approval
Children who lack confidence may tell grandiose lies to make themselves seem more impressive, special or talented to inflate their self-esteem and make themselves look good in the eyes of others. Dr. Rouse recalls treating an eighth-grader who was exaggerating wildly about 80 percent of the time: “They were kind of incredible experiences that weren’t within the bounds of plausible at all.” For instance, the boy would say he’d gone to a party and everyone had started to chant for him when he came in the door.

To get the focus off themselves
Children with anxiety or depression might lie about their symptoms to get the spotlight off them, Dr. Rouse notes. Or they might minimize their issues, saying something like “No, no I slept fine last night” because they don’t want people worrying about them.

Speaking before they think
Dr. Carol Brady, PhD, a clinical psychologist and regular columnist for ADDitude magazine who works with a lot of kids with ADHD, says they may lie out of impulsivity. “One of the hallmarks of the impulsive type of ADHD is to talk before they think,” she says, “so a lot of times you’re going to get this lying issue.”

Sometimes kids can really believe they’ve done something and tell what sounds like a lie, Dr. Brady adds. “Sometimes they’ll really just forget. I have kids who say, ‘To tell you the truth, Dr. Brady, I thought I did my homework. I really thought I did. I didn’t remember I had that extra work.’” When this happens, she says, they need help supplementing their memory by using techniques such as checklists, time limits and organizers.

And then there are white lies
Just to make things even trickier, in certain situations parents might actually encourage children to tell a white lie in order to spare someone’s feelings. In this case, the white lie and when to use it fall under the umbrella of social skills.

What parents can do about lying
Both Dr. Rouse and Dr. Brady say it’s first important to think about the function of the lie. “When I’m doing an evaluation, there are questions on our intake forms where parents can check off whether the child lies,” Dr. Rouse says. “It’s something I might spend 20 minutes delving into. What kinds of lies, what are the circumstances of the lies?” He says behavioral treatments depend on the function of the lies and the severity of the problem. “There are no hard and fast guidelines,” he says. “Different levels mean different repercussions.”

Level 1 lie
When it comes to attention-seeking lying, Dr. Rouse says that, generally speaking, it’s best to ignore it. Rather than saying harshly, “That’s a lie. I know that didn’t happen to you,” he suggests a gentle approach where parents don’t necessarily have a consequence but they’re also not trying to feed it a lot of attention.

This is especially true if the lying is coming from place of low self-esteem. “So if they’re saying, ‘I scored 10 goals today at recess in soccer and everybody put me on their shoulders and it was amazing’ and you think it’s not true, then I would say don’t ask a bunch of follow-up questions.” For these kind of low-level lies that aren’t really hurting anyone but aren’t good behavior, ignoring and redirecting to something that you know is more factual is the way to go.

Level 2 lie
If that doesn’t work, Dr. Rouse says, parents can be more transparent about it by offering a mild reprimand. “I’ve had situations where it’s an inflated kind of fantastical type of lie,” he says. “I’ll have parents label it and call it a tall tale. If the child is telling one of these stories, a parent will gently say, ‘Hey, this sounds like a tall tale, why don’t you try again and tell me what really happened?’ ” It’s about pointing out the behavior and encouraging kids to try again.

Level 3 lie
If something is more serious, like older kids lying about where they’ve been or whether they’ve done their homework, parents can think about having a consequence. Kids should be clear that there will be repercussions for this kind of lie, so it’s not coming out of the blue. Like all consequences, Dr. Rouse recommends it should be something short-lived, not overblown, which gives the child a chance to get back to practicing better behaviors. Some examples: losing her phone for an hour or having to do a chore

Also, depending on the severity, there also has to be a component of addressing what they were lying about. If a child has said he didn’t have any homework all week and then the parent finds out he had homework every day, there needs to be some kind of consequence for the lying and he also has to sit down and do all the work. If he’s hit another child and lied about it, there’s a consequence for the lying and also for hitting. In this case, Dr. Rouse says, you would also have him write an apology letter to the other child.

None of that worked on my DD. She's 26 and still lies about things.

[RedBottoms]

therapy is a great idea especially since he does not have his father in his life. That causes issues.

Keep being firm and not giving into his manipulation but also don't let it get you all flipping out. I think he might be seeking negative attention. So don't give it to him.

However you should be spending more positive time with him so he won't feel the need to seek negative attention

[Pjmm]

I started telling my son well whatever you want to tell me about this mess you still need to clean it. Fine you didn't make it. Please clean it anyway. I also started verifying everything he told me with other people, especially school. He hated that I didn't trust him so he started being more truthful. Also I praised him and gave him a lesser punishment for being truthful if he did something wrong. His threatening to hurt himself is worrisome though and I think the therapy is a good idea.