Planet Fitness revokes a woman's membership after she takes photos in the women's locker room of a transgender shaving

[SallyMae]

With the policies being be as modest as possible and also expect very temporary nudity, a 12 year old actually seeing a dick is odds-defying lol.

What I want to know is, what are the terrible consequences of seeing a dick that are so psychologically damaging (for girls, not boys) that it must be prevented at all costs, even at the cost of discriminating against trans people?

Girls feel uncomfortable around random men’s penises,

In a way that they’re not uncomfortable if a 70 year old naked woman is in the locker room.

Why? Because of the way we evolved as humans really… the instinctual reasoning probably goes back THAT far…



Either that’s just something you accept as the way some people feel, or you don’t think their feelings are valid and attempt to deny them the social ability to challenge what is being normalized.

Well, I don't really agree with your generalizations. I think that some girls do and some don't, some boys do and some don't, some adults do and some don't, and they can certainly be as uncomfortable around naked women as men. All of those feelings are certainly valid; I think it's up to people to decide what they and their kids can handle.

But, even supposing a parent misjudged, you would have to show that some kind of actual harm could occur as a result of this exposure. Feeling uncomfortable for a moment is a part of growing up that is caused by millions of things every day and it's nothing to be afraid of. In the absence of harm, it's not a reason to discriminate against trans people.


ETA: I also don't agree that it's just evolved human behavior - many human groups have much less stricture about nudity throughout the lifetime and it's perfectly healthy.

[MonarchMom]

Well, I don't really agree with your generalizations. I think that some girls do and some don't, some boys do and some don't, some adults do and some don't, and they can certainly be as uncomfortable around naked women as men. All of those feelings are certainly valid; I think it's up to people to decide what they and their kids can handle.

But, even supposing a parent misjudged, you would have to show that some kind of actual harm could occur as a result of this exposure. Feeling uncomfortable for a moment is a part of growing up that is caused by millions of things every day and it's nothing to be afraid of. In the absence of harm, it's not a reason to discriminate against trans people.

ETA: I also don't agree that it's just evolved human behavior - many human groups have much less stricture about nudity throughout the lifetime and it's perfectly healthy.

Agree that this is a more cultural reaction, not something innate in humans. Also like to add that many girls do see the adult male equipment - and not in locker rooms. Men have been exposing themselves to girls (and boys) for most of recorded history. Is it unpleasant or even a bit shocking? Yes, but mainly because of the implied sexual transgression. We all see naked bodies in museums and books without any trauma.

Also, around here you must be over 14 to use Planet Fitness (and many other gyms) and if under 19 an adult must accompany you.

This thread sure got weird... None of this happened in the actual incident - it seems a lot of speculation about very specific locker room scenes!

[MonarchMom]

So what you’re actually saying is that you don’t believe women when they say why they’re uncomfortable around a stranger’s naked male body, but not uncomfortable around a naked female body and you need it to be anti-trans instead of believing the women when the say why they’re uncomfortable…




That’s why there’s such a pushback on this too…


It feels like complete gaslighting when supporters of naked men in womens locker rooms attempt to vilify the reason behind the uncomfortable feelings…

People can be uncomfortable, I respect that, I just don't think it happens to nearly the extent you are making it sound and certainly not to the point where we need to further ostracize and discriminate against trans people. Most people, trans people included and probably specifically, will be cognizant of a little girl in a locker room and behave accordingly.

Trangenderism is part of the human condition and I think we are better off explaining to kids that men and women come in all shapes and sizes and with all sorts of equipment than shamefully trying to hide them. Kids are better than we are at accepting differences if we let them.

So what’s your opinion on the female swimmers who swam against Lia Thomas and many of them said how uncomfortable they were because they were just standing there naked in front of them… but we’re told it was wrong and anti-trans to feel uncomfortable?


Should they just shut up and deal with it or quit competitively swimming?

Do these swimmers assume every other person in the locker room is straight? Thomas is no more or less likely to view them with prurient interest as any other person in the locker room. That is always the case in any locker room, changing room, bathroom, hospital, or anyplace else you may be partially clothed.

[Slimshandy]

What I want to know is, what are the terrible consequences of seeing a dick that are so psychologically damaging (for girls, not boys) that it must be prevented at all costs, even at the cost of discriminating against trans people?

Girls feel uncomfortable around random men’s penises,

In a way that they’re not uncomfortable if a 70 year old naked woman is in the locker room.

Why? Because of the way we evolved as humans really… the instinctual reasoning probably goes back THAT far…



Either that’s just something you accept as the way some people feel, or you don’t think their feelings are valid and attempt to deny them the social ability to challenge what is being normalized.

Well, I don't really agree with your generalizations. I think that some girls do and some don't, some boys do and some don't, some adults do and some don't, and they can certainly be as uncomfortable around naked women as men. All of those feelings are certainly valid; I think it's up to people to decide what they and their kids can handle.

But, even supposing a parent misjudged, you would have to show that some kind of actual harm could occur as a result of this exposure. Feeling uncomfortable for a moment is a part of growing up that is caused by millions of things every day and it's nothing to be afraid of. In the absence of harm, it's not a reason to discriminate against trans people.


ETA: I also don't agree that it's just evolved human behavior - many human groups have much less stricture about nudity throughout the lifetime and it's perfectly healthy.

Well, that’s one way of thinking…


But a lot of people say No, sparing my daughter that “moment of uncomfortableness” is well worth keeping naked men away from her.

[Slimshandy]

People can be uncomfortable, I respect that, I just don't think it happens to nearly the extent you are making it sound and certainly not to the point where we need to further ostracize and discriminate against trans people. Most people, trans people included and probably specifically, will be cognizant of a little girl in a locker room and behave accordingly.

Trangenderism is part of the human condition and I think we are better off explaining to kids that men and women come in all shapes and sizes and with all sorts of equipment than shamefully trying to hide them. Kids are better than we are at accepting differences if we let them.

So what’s your opinion on the female swimmers who swam against Lia Thomas and many of them said how uncomfortable they were because they were just standing there naked in front of them… but we’re told it was wrong and anti-trans to feel uncomfortable?


Should they just shut up and deal with it or quit competitively swimming?

Do these swimmers assume every other person in the locker room is straight? Thomas is no more or less likely to view them with prurient interest as any other person in the locker room. That is always the case in any locker room, changing room, bathroom, hospital, or anyplace else you may be partially clothed.

Lia Thomas was Dating women at the time…

Do we just say “well… lesbians exist so you shouldn’t feel valid in being uncomfortable “

[jessilin0113]

So what you’re actually saying is that you don’t believe women when they say why they’re uncomfortable around a stranger’s naked male body, but not uncomfortable around a naked female body and you need it to be anti-trans instead of believing the women when the say why they’re uncomfortable…




That’s why there’s such a pushback on this too…


It feels like complete gaslighting when supporters of naked men in womens locker rooms attempt to vilify the reason behind the uncomfortable feelings…

People can be uncomfortable, I respect that, I just don't think it happens to nearly the extent you are making it sound and certainly not to the point where we need to further ostracize and discriminate against trans people. Most people, trans people included and probably specifically, will be cognizant of a little girl in a locker room and behave accordingly.

Trangenderism is part of the human condition and I think we are better off explaining to kids that men and women come in all shapes and sizes and with all sorts of equipment than shamefully trying to hide them. Kids are better than we are at accepting differences if we let them.

So what’s your opinion on the female swimmers who swam against Lia Thomas and many of them said how uncomfortable they were because they were just standing there naked in front of them… but we’re told it was wrong and anti-trans to feel uncomfortable?


Should they just shut up and deal with it or quit competitively swimming?

It's discomfort versus discrimination (and always interesting as to WHOSE discomfort we prioritize). I think it's worse to be discriminatory. The more it's accepted as natural, the less discomfort there will be.

[MonarchMom]

So what’s your opinion on the female swimmers who swam against Lia Thomas and many of them said how uncomfortable they were because they were just standing there naked in front of them… but we’re told it was wrong and anti-trans to feel uncomfortable?


Should they just shut up and deal with it or quit competitively swimming?

Do these swimmers assume every other person in the locker room is straight? Thomas is no more or less likely to view them with prurient interest as any other person in the locker room. That is always the case in any locker room, changing room, bathroom, hospital, or anyplace else you may be partially clothed.

Lia Thomas was Dating women at the time…

Do we just say “well… lesbians exist so you shouldn’t feel valid in being uncomfortable “

Apparently that is what we do. As well as allowing for gay men existing, and being in locker rooms with other males. It is behavior that is the problem - not identity. No one should be assaulted, shamed, harassed or intimidated. But we know that in school sports teams, military groups, and other places people often take advantage of these situations to in fact harm people. I'd prefer we focus on the actual behavior that is violating people's rights rather than perceived possible discomfort with identity.

[SallyMae]

Well, I don't really agree with your generalizations. I think that some girls do and some don't, some boys do and some don't, some adults do and some don't, and they can certainly be as uncomfortable around naked women as men. All of those feelings are certainly valid; I think it's up to people to decide what they and their kids can handle.

But, even supposing a parent misjudged, you would have to show that some kind of actual harm could occur as a result of this exposure. Feeling uncomfortable for a moment is a part of growing up that is caused by millions of things every day and it's nothing to be afraid of. In the absence of harm, it's not a reason to discriminate against trans people.

ETA: I also don't agree that it's just evolved human behavior - many human groups have much less stricture about nudity throughout the lifetime and it's perfectly healthy.

Well, that’s one way of thinking…

But a lot of people say No, sparing my daughter that “moment of uncomfortableness” is well worth keeping naked men away from her.

Of course! Everyone has the choice of where they take their daughter.

But putting it on the trans person to keep themselves away from her violates their rights and comforts in a far more damaging way, and perpetuates stereotypes that they are to be specially feared. In the absence of harm, I don't agree that's a valid tradeoff.

[Della]

Damn that fool in the Bible who laughed at his papa's nakedness.

[SouthernIslander]

With the policies being be as modest as possible and also expect very temporary nudity, a 12 year old actually seeing a dick is odds-defying lol.

What I want to know is, what are the terrible consequences of seeing a dick that are so psychologically damaging (for girls, not boys) that it must be prevented at all costs, even at the cost of discriminating against trans people?

I don’t associate this with transwomen but I do not want to be around a stranger’s naked penis and would find that traumatizing. And I’m not being a smart ass, I can’t do it.