Service dogs

[WellPreserved]

There are reasons why service dogs don’t currently require certification and documents. Those who qualify for a service dog are permitted to self task train their dogs. Requiring certification would mean they would have to go through a formal training and testing system, which costs time and money, and would create barriers for those who need the dogs. Their behavior shows that they are properly trained as a service dog.
I would not call the amount of imposters “insane”, sure they exist but it’s not like we’re seeing dozens of aggressive dogs at the store every time we go. It’s like a once every few months occurrence when I see a dog who I wouldn’t identify as a service dog. And if they are exhibiting those behaviors, the staff can tell them to leave. Those who actually need the dogs shouldn’t pay the price of the few who abuse the system.

Service dogs in Virginia are required to wear a vest and harness appropriately labeled. That is their identification. Sure, it's possible to get those items online but in my experience, those who don't have actual service dogs don't bother.

I do have a problem with people bringing their non-service dogs into grocery stores and the like. It's a gross sense of entitlement and it could cause the business of incur a really hefty fine. I live in a small town and I see non-service dogs in the grocery store all the time, at least every time I go. I know their owners' names and sometimes the dogs' name, lol. Some are well behaved, some are not, and one ("Buddy" the Jack Russell) is aggressive. All could cause our grocery store to incur a $10000 fine. These owners are not dog lovers, they are entitled assholes.

As I wrote earlier, my daughter has the same issue at the brewery where she works. It's the same dogs and the same dog owners. She's tough and they listen to her when she tells them they have to go outside but some of the other staff aren't so tough. It pisses me off that she or anyone has to tell them, not once, but in some cases, every single week and that they choose to ignore some of the younger staff members. It's disrespectful. She has some regular patrons that have service dogs (there is a large veteran community here) and of course they are allowed. Fortunately, they back her up when Deborah brings in Buddy but they shouldn't have to.

What I find interesting is that the regulars who feel that they are entitled to bring their dogs into spaces where they are prohibited are the same people that refused to wear masks, at least in our town.

Anyone can buy a service dog vest off the internet, so that really doesn’t mean anything. It could also be argued that Virginia law is not in compliance with ADA law, but I’ll leave that up to the government. Their behavior is the indicator of if they are task trained. If someone isn’t being asked to leave when their dog shows behavior not allowed by a service dog, they likely wouldn’t approach someone either to “prove” that their dog is a service dog. Just like how there should be a manager on hand for if a customer gets out of hand, the same applies to dogs. Certification card or not, there still has to be enforcement, so setting up barriers that make it harder for those who need dogs to get them isn’t going to stop the problem.

I stated that it is easy to get those items off the internet but in my experience, people who don’t have a service dog don’t bother. It’s ashamed that we have to rely on business manager to police the entitled since people see a sign that states “no dogs allowed” and think it doesn’t apply to them.

Let’s face it, all the manager can do is ask the person to leave. They are not going to physically remove them. Again, in my experience, if someone feels so entitled as to assume that the rules don’t apply to them, they will probably not leave when asked.

That’s why I say hit them at the cash register.

[Vegaswife2011]

Service dogs in Virginia are required to wear a vest and harness appropriately labeled. That is their identification. Sure, it's possible to get those items online but in my experience, those who don't have actual service dogs don't bother.

I do have a problem with people bringing their non-service dogs into grocery stores and the like. It's a gross sense of entitlement and it could cause the business of incur a really hefty fine. I live in a small town and I see non-service dogs in the grocery store all the time, at least every time I go. I know their owners' names and sometimes the dogs' name, lol. Some are well behaved, some are not, and one ("Buddy" the Jack Russell) is aggressive. All could cause our grocery store to incur a $10000 fine. These owners are not dog lovers, they are entitled assholes.

As I wrote earlier, my daughter has the same issue at the brewery where she works. It's the same dogs and the same dog owners. She's tough and they listen to her when she tells them they have to go outside but some of the other staff aren't so tough. It pisses me off that she or anyone has to tell them, not once, but in some cases, every single week and that they choose to ignore some of the younger staff members. It's disrespectful. She has some regular patrons that have service dogs (there is a large veteran community here) and of course they are allowed. Fortunately, they back her up when Deborah brings in Buddy but they shouldn't have to.

What I find interesting is that the regulars who feel that they are entitled to bring their dogs into spaces where they are prohibited are the same people that refused to wear masks, at least in our town.

Anyone can buy a service dog vest off the internet, so that really doesn’t mean anything. It could also be argued that Virginia law is not in compliance with ADA law, but I’ll leave that up to the government. Their behavior is the indicator of if they are task trained. If someone isn’t being asked to leave when their dog shows behavior not allowed by a service dog, they likely wouldn’t approach someone either to “prove” that their dog is a service dog. Just like how there should be a manager on hand for if a customer gets out of hand, the same applies to dogs. Certification card or not, there still has to be enforcement, so setting up barriers that make it harder for those who need dogs to get them isn’t going to stop the problem.

I stated that it is easy to get those items off the internet but in my experience, people who don’t have a service dog don’t bother. It’s ashamed that we have to rely on business manager to police the entitled since people see a sign that states “no dogs allowed” and think it doesn’t apply to them.

Let’s face it, all the manager can do is ask the person to leave. They are not going to physically remove them. Again, in my experience, if someone feels so entitled as to assume that the rules don’t apply to them, they will probably not leave when asked.

That’s why I say hit them at the cash register.

I like that idea.

[Olioxenfree]

Service dogs in Virginia are required to wear a vest and harness appropriately labeled. That is their identification. Sure, it's possible to get those items online but in my experience, those who don't have actual service dogs don't bother.

I do have a problem with people bringing their non-service dogs into grocery stores and the like. It's a gross sense of entitlement and it could cause the business of incur a really hefty fine. I live in a small town and I see non-service dogs in the grocery store all the time, at least every time I go. I know their owners' names and sometimes the dogs' name, lol. Some are well behaved, some are not, and one ("Buddy" the Jack Russell) is aggressive. All could cause our grocery store to incur a $10000 fine. These owners are not dog lovers, they are entitled assholes.

As I wrote earlier, my daughter has the same issue at the brewery where she works. It's the same dogs and the same dog owners. She's tough and they listen to her when she tells them they have to go outside but some of the other staff aren't so tough. It pisses me off that she or anyone has to tell them, not once, but in some cases, every single week and that they choose to ignore some of the younger staff members. It's disrespectful. She has some regular patrons that have service dogs (there is a large veteran community here) and of course they are allowed. Fortunately, they back her up when Deborah brings in Buddy but they shouldn't have to.

What I find interesting is that the regulars who feel that they are entitled to bring their dogs into spaces where they are prohibited are the same people that refused to wear masks, at least in our town.

Anyone can buy a service dog vest off the internet, so that really doesn’t mean anything. It could also be argued that Virginia law is not in compliance with ADA law, but I’ll leave that up to the government. Their behavior is the indicator of if they are task trained. If someone isn’t being asked to leave when their dog shows behavior not allowed by a service dog, they likely wouldn’t approach someone either to “prove” that their dog is a service dog. Just like how there should be a manager on hand for if a customer gets out of hand, the same applies to dogs. Certification card or not, there still has to be enforcement, so setting up barriers that make it harder for those who need dogs to get them isn’t going to stop the problem.

I stated that it is easy to get those items off the internet but in my experience, people who don’t have a service dog don’t bother. It’s ashamed that we have to rely on business manager to police the entitled since people see a sign that states “no dogs allowed” and think it doesn’t apply to them.

Let’s face it, all the manager can do is ask the person to leave. They are not going to physically remove them. Again, in my experience, if someone feels so entitled as to assume that the rules don’t apply to them, they will probably not leave when asked.

That’s why I say hit them at the cash register.

They can call the police to physically remove someone, just like if there was a person causing a disturbance, but whether or not they feel like that is an option, that isn’t going to change by requiring a service dog certification card. It still involves a confrontation.

[WellPreserved]

Anyone can buy a service dog vest off the internet, so that really doesn’t mean anything. It could also be argued that Virginia law is not in compliance with ADA law, but I’ll leave that up to the government. Their behavior is the indicator of if they are task trained. If someone isn’t being asked to leave when their dog shows behavior not allowed by a service dog, they likely wouldn’t approach someone either to “prove” that their dog is a service dog. Just like how there should be a manager on hand for if a customer gets out of hand, the same applies to dogs. Certification card or not, there still has to be enforcement, so setting up barriers that make it harder for those who need dogs to get them isn’t going to stop the problem.

I stated that it is easy to get those items off the internet but in my experience, people who don’t have a service dog don’t bother. It’s ashamed that we have to rely on business manager to police the entitled since people see a sign that states “no dogs allowed” and think it doesn’t apply to them.

Let’s face it, all the manager can do is ask the person to leave. They are not going to physically remove them. Again, in my experience, if someone feels so entitled as to assume that the rules don’t apply to them, they will probably not leave when asked.

That’s why I say hit them at the cash register.

They can call the police to physically remove someone, just like if there was a person causing a disturbance, but whether or not they feel like that is an option, that isn’t going to change by requiring a service dog certification card. It still involves a confrontation.

That’s why I refused service instead as do some other businesses in our area. I think that more effective.

[Anonymous 1]

No, it isn’t. The dog is legally allowed in the store. The actual employees of the store can ask if the dog is a service dog and as long as the dog is behaving to the legal standards, it’s no one’s business to demand that they prove their disability.

Actual service dogs are allowed in stores. These amount of imposters is insane and is only going to make things more difficult for those who actually have and need a trained service dog.
They don't have to prove their disability they just need something showing they qualify for and have a service dog. It doesn't have to say what the disability is or be difficult for them to obtain. Sadly people can't be responsible enough to say hey I don't have a service dog my dog doesn't belong here and I would hate to see them ruin things for people who actually need it.

There are reasons why service dogs don’t currently require certification and documents. Those who qualify for a service dog are permitted to self task train their dogs. Requiring certification would mean they would have to go through a formal training and testing system, which costs time and money, and would create barriers for those who need the dogs. Their behavior shows that they are properly trained as a service dog.
I would not call the amount of imposters “insane”, sure they exist but it’s not like we’re seeing dozens of aggressive dogs at the store every time we go. It’s like a once every few months occurrence when I see a dog who I wouldn’t identify as a service dog. And if they are exhibiting those behaviors, the staff can tell them to leave. Those who actually need the dogs shouldn’t pay the price of the few who abuse the system.

Which is why I suggested having a doctor (which anyone who requires a service dog likely routinely sees anyways) just prescribe a card. They couldn't verify the training of the dog but they could say that the person can use one.
And it's not just a few who abuse the system. I see dogs in stores everytime I go in there. This afternoon there was a small dog in a carrier balanced in the kiddie seat at the grocery store. What kind of service could that dog possibly be performing inside a crate?

[Traci_Momof2]

There are reasons why service dogs don’t currently require certification and documents. Those who qualify for a service dog are permitted to self task train their dogs. Requiring certification would mean they would have to go through a formal training and testing system, which costs time and money, and would create barriers for those who need the dogs. Their behavior shows that they are properly trained as a service dog.
I would not call the amount of imposters “insane”, sure they exist but it’s not like we’re seeing dozens of aggressive dogs at the store every time we go. It’s like a once every few months occurrence when I see a dog who I wouldn’t identify as a service dog. And if they are exhibiting those behaviors, the staff can tell them to leave. Those who actually need the dogs shouldn’t pay the price of the few who abuse the system.

Let's clarify this point. In my area, every single time I go to the store I see a dog there that is clearly not a service dog. Now is that dog aggressive or causing a nuisance? No. The number of times I see an aggressive dog in the store is very low. But the number of times I see a dog that is clearly not a service dog is pretty much every time. And that's the ones that are difficult to weed out, the ones that are not aggressive and not a nuisance, but still shouldn't be there anyway. Because when I'm setting my food in the upper part of the grocery cart I don't want to think about the fact that some mangy mutts butt was just recently there. And I shouldn't have to.

Honest question, what is indicating to you that they aren’t a service dog if they aren’t misbehaving or aggressive? Service dogs are not permitted in the shopping cart, so that is a situation where the store manager should say the dog needs to be out of the cart or you will have to leave, service dog or not.

And while I fully agree that a dog shouldn’t be in a shopping cart, your food likely has come in contact during its travels with things grosser than a dog, so I wash my produce, washing hands after handling packaging, etc regardless of if I saw a dog in a cart of not. Almost every food item has been in a truck or warehouse or was harvested from a field where a mouse or bird pooped on it before ending up on a grocery store shelf.

Being in the cart is a key tip-off, or in a stroller or purse or anything like that. I've also been in a place where the dog on the leash left it's owner's table area and came to mine and was sniffing all around my feet and eating up crumbs off the floor. That's definitely not a service dog. And no, those dogs weren't bothering me but the fact of the matter is that they were not service dogs and are not legally allowed to be there. Especially in grocery stores or places that serve food, there is a real reason why ONLY service dogs are supposed to be permitted.

You know the one dog I could tell for sure was a service dog? We were at a National Park in the visitor's center. There was a man up at the counter talking to a Park Ranger (where you would get information etc). At his feet was lying a dog. The dog lay there perfectly upright (not a sloppy to-the-side kind of lay) with paws straight out in front of it. The dog was perfectly at the man's side and did not move. It didn't even look at the other people coming and going from the area. And honestly I don't even remember if the dog had a vest or not because it wasn't important to determining if it was a service dog or not. You could just tell from the demeanor and behavior, that dog was trained to focus on what it needed to do for it's owner and trained to ignore all distractions around it.

I see a lot of dogs in my local grocery store and they all behave like pets. None of them behave like service animals. And therefore they just don't belong.