Planet Fitness revokes a woman's membership after she takes photos in the women's locker room of a transgender shaving

[SouthernIslander]

It's discomfort versus discrimination (and always interesting as to WHOSE discomfort we prioritize). I think it's worse to be discriminatory. The more it's accepted as natural, the less discomfort there will be.

It’s extremely interesting whose discomfort we prioritize, isn’t it?

Women’s spaces can’t be for women anymore, women’s sports can’t be for women anymore, and women will always just be expected to “make space” for the wants of men no matter how uncomfortable that is or they are vilified….

It’s blatantly apparent who’s comfort we are prioritizing.

Not comfort; rights.

Yes, it's always uncomfortable when a group which was being oppressed starts exercising their rights in public. When segregation was made illegal, people were so uncomfortable with the thought of different races swimming together that they actually closed the pools rather than allow them to become integrated. It was considered too risky to allow the possibility that black men would see white women in their bathing suits, or get near them in the water. Thousands of public swimming pools around the country were drained and paved over. White people continued to swim in private pools, which could still be segregated; many black people never had the chance to learn to swim.



Of course that seems unbelievably silly and discriminatory now. I think eventually this issue will be regarded in a similar way.

Jim Crow and LGBT rights are two completely different things IMHO. So I don’t think that is a fair comparison because it’s a totally different fight.

[MonarchMom]

lol, therein lies the confusion huh?

I keep thinking that people with penises are men, and people with vaginas are women…

Transgender women are called women because that’s the respectful thing to do, call people what they want to be called….

It is MIND BOGGLING to me that you believe there are no biological definitions or differences between the male and female body… but hey, everyone is allowed to think whatever they want. I just happen to think that we’ve taken good manners to the level of delusions…

There are literally 100s of different physical characteristic combinations (chromosomes, appearance, development, hormones, fertility, function, internal and external organs, sperm or egg production) that humans can manifest. Many people do not even know, or choose not to disclose, these variations when present. It is a vast oversimplification to think that having or not having a single organ defines a person's S*x or gender.

What is your definition of a woman?


If all emotions are taken out of the equation… not what people “feel like” … but what is your biological definition of a woman?

Good question. As I am not a biologist, endocrinologist or Sexologists, I don't need to have a specific answer or opinion on this. I try to remain open to learn from new information and life experience, and I understand that not all aspects of our humanity are known in the present moment. Medical knowledge is expanding constantly, and with it our understanding of the range of humanity.

In my daily life forming a concrete definition does not seem an urgent problem to solve. The younger members of the family have all types of friends, including some who have identified as transgender or gender fluid. I do my best to remember how they identify and address them in their preferred way. They do their best not to roll their eyes when I forget.

[Slimshandy]

There are literally 100s of different physical characteristic combinations (chromosomes, appearance, development, hormones, fertility, function, internal and external organs, sperm or egg production) that humans can manifest. Many people do not even know, or choose not to disclose, these variations when present. It is a vast oversimplification to think that having or not having a single organ defines a person's S*x or gender.

What is your definition of a woman?


If all emotions are taken out of the equation… not what people “feel like” … but what is your biological definition of a woman?

Good question. As I am not a biologist, endocrinologist or Sexologists, I don't need to have a specific answer or opinion on this. I try to remain open to learn from new information and life experience, and I understand that not all aspects of our humanity are known in the present moment. Medical knowledge is expanding constantly, and with it our understanding of the range of humanity.

In my daily life forming a concrete definition does not seem an urgent problem to solve. The younger members of the family have all types of friends, including some who have identified as transgender or gender fluid. I do my best to remember how they identify and address them in their preferred way. They do their best not to roll their eyes when I forget.

I think it’s fantastic that you’re as respectful as you are with all humans…
But you’re talking to me about how my definition of male and female are false… that might warrant some discussion.


In Anthropology there is a term called “ Human Sexual Dimorphism “… basically the differences in a male and female body.

Do we now believe that sexual dimorphism is present in mammals, but no longer present in humans, we are now non-sexually dimorphic as earthworms are?

[WellPreserved]

What is your definition of a woman?


If all emotions are taken out of the equation… not what people “feel like” … but what is your biological definition of a woman?

Good question. As I am not a biologist, endocrinologist or Sexologists, I don't need to have a specific answer or opinion on this. I try to remain open to learn from new information and life experience, and I understand that not all aspects of our humanity are known in the present moment. Medical knowledge is expanding constantly, and with it our understanding of the range of humanity.

In my daily life forming a concrete definition does not seem an urgent problem to solve. The younger members of the family have all types of friends, including some who have identified as transgender or gender fluid. I do my best to remember how they identify and address them in their preferred way. They do their best not to roll their eyes when I forget.

I think it’s fantastic that you’re as respectful as you are with all humans…
But you’re talking to me about how my definition of male and female are false… that might warrant some discussion.


In Anthropology there is a term called “ Human Sexual Dimorphism “… basically the differences in a male and female body.

Do we now believe that sexual dimorphism is present in mammals, but no longer present in humans, we are now non-sexually dimorphic as earthworms are?

You are confusing S*x with gender.

[Slimshandy]

Good question. As I am not a biologist, endocrinologist or Sexologists, I don't need to have a specific answer or opinion on this. I try to remain open to learn from new information and life experience, and I understand that not all aspects of our humanity are known in the present moment. Medical knowledge is expanding constantly, and with it our understanding of the range of humanity.

In my daily life forming a concrete definition does not seem an urgent problem to solve. The younger members of the family have all types of friends, including some who have identified as transgender or gender fluid. I do my best to remember how they identify and address them in their preferred way. They do their best not to roll their eyes when I forget.

I think it’s fantastic that you’re as respectful as you are with all humans…
But you’re talking to me about how my definition of male and female are false… that might warrant some discussion.


In Anthropology there is a term called “ Human Sexual Dimorphism “… basically the differences in a male and female body.

Do we now believe that sexual dimorphism is present in mammals, but no longer present in humans, we are now non-sexually dimorphic as earthworms are?

You are confusing S*x with gender.

You are disregarding the notion that S*x exists.

[MonarchMom]

What is your definition of a woman?


If all emotions are taken out of the equation… not what people “feel like” … but what is your biological definition of a woman?

Good question. As I am not a biologist, endocrinologist or Sexologists, I don't need to have a specific answer or opinion on this. I try to remain open to learn from new information and life experience, and I understand that not all aspects of our humanity are known in the present moment. Medical knowledge is expanding constantly, and with it our understanding of the range of humanity.

In my daily life forming a concrete definition does not seem an urgent problem to solve. The younger members of the family have all types of friends, including some who have identified as transgender or gender fluid. I do my best to remember how they identify and address them in their preferred way. They do their best not to roll their eyes when I forget.

I think it’s fantastic that you’re as respectful as you are with all humans…
But you’re talking to me about how my definition of male and female are false… that might warrant some discussion.


In Anthropology there is a term called “ Human Sexual Dimorphism “… basically the differences in a male and female body.

Do we now believe that sexual dimorphism is present in mammals, but no longer present in humans, we are now non-sexually dimorphic as earthworms are?

Never said your definition was "false." I said it is an oversimplification to define this based on a single organ. There is more nuance in humans, and apparently in many other mammals. And not everyone falls completely into one category or the other.

[WellPreserved]

I think it’s fantastic that you’re as respectful as you are with all humans…
But you’re talking to me about how my definition of male and female are false… that might warrant some discussion.


In Anthropology there is a term called “ Human Sexual Dimorphism “… basically the differences in a male and female body.

Do we now believe that sexual dimorphism is present in mammals, but no longer present in humans, we are now non-sexually dimorphic as earthworms are?

You are confusing S*x with gender.

You are disregarding the notion that S*x exists.

Absolutely not. Biological S*x is determined by a set of criteria. If you look up the biological definition of female, for example, you may see "An individual of the S*x which conceives and brings forth young, or (in a wider sense) which has an ovary and produces ova. The male and female of each living thing." I fully admit that a biological male cannot become a biological female - yet.

However, "Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time." https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1. So I believe that a woman who is transgender is a woman.

People can define "woman" by either their biological S*x or their gender or a combination of both. I personally prefer to define myself as a woman by my gender rather than my S*x as it is more definitive of my whole self rather than just the presence of ovaries.

[Slimshandy]

Good question. As I am not a biologist, endocrinologist or Sexologists, I don't need to have a specific answer or opinion on this. I try to remain open to learn from new information and life experience, and I understand that not all aspects of our humanity are known in the present moment. Medical knowledge is expanding constantly, and with it our understanding of the range of humanity.

In my daily life forming a concrete definition does not seem an urgent problem to solve. The younger members of the family have all types of friends, including some who have identified as transgender or gender fluid. I do my best to remember how they identify and address them in their preferred way. They do their best not to roll their eyes when I forget.

I think it’s fantastic that you’re as respectful as you are with all humans…
But you’re talking to me about how my definition of male and female are false… that might warrant some discussion.


In Anthropology there is a term called “ Human Sexual Dimorphism “… basically the differences in a male and female body.

Do we now believe that sexual dimorphism is present in mammals, but no longer present in humans, we are now non-sexually dimorphic as earthworms are?

Never said your definition was "false." I said it is an oversimplification to define this based on a single organ. There is more nuance in humans, and apparently in many other mammals. And not everyone falls completely into one category or the other.

There are people whose genetics are xxy instead of xx or xy, rare, but they definitely exist…but that’s not really what we’re talking about.

We’re discussing if men can decide that they are now women and go into women’s spaces, where they are naked without question… whether or not that should be their right to do so.

I am saying “no” just deciding you’re a female doesn’t literally change your S*x. Many people are disagreeing with me and saying, yes… it does literally change your S*x so all scientific studies that go over the statistical differences in male and female actions are invalid.

There are a lot of differences between men and women, both physically and statistical actions.
Men commit more violent crimes.
Men commit more rapes.
Men commit more sexual abuse crimes.
Men will statistically be more likely to download CSAM.

Plenty of women feel unsafe undressing in front of a naked strange man. They should feel that way. That instinct keeps them safe more often than we would like to admit.



This is the question of whether or not a man can say he’s now a woman, so none of those statistics matter anymore, so all the reasons why women wanted private spaces from men to undress are now an assault on my rights.

[MonarchMom]

I think it’s fantastic that you’re as respectful as you are with all humans…
But you’re talking to me about how my definition of male and female are false… that might warrant some discussion.


In Anthropology there is a term called “ Human Sexual Dimorphism “… basically the differences in a male and female body.

Do we now believe that sexual dimorphism is present in mammals, but no longer present in humans, we are now non-sexually dimorphic as earthworms are?

Never said your definition was "false." I said it is an oversimplification to define this based on a single organ. There is more nuance in humans, and apparently in many other mammals. And not everyone falls completely into one category or the other.

There are people whose genetics are xxy instead of xx or xy, rare, but they definitely exist…but that’s not really what we’re talking about.

We’re discussing if men can decide that they are now women and go into women’s spaces, where they are naked without question… whether or not that should be their right to do so.

I am saying “no” just deciding you’re a female doesn’t literally change your S*x. Many people are disagreeing with me and saying, yes… it does literally change your S*x so all scientific studies that go over the statistical differences in male and female actions are invalid.

There are a lot of differences between men and women, both physically and statistical actions.
Men commit more violent crimes.
Men commit more rapes.
Men commit more sexual abuse crimes.
Men will statistically be more likely to download CSAM.

Plenty of women feel unsafe undressing in front of a naked strange man. They should feel that way. That instinct keeps them safe more often than we would like to admit.



This is the question of whether or not a man can say he’s now a woman, so none of those statistics matter anymore, so all the reasons why women wanted private spaces from men to undress are now an assault on my rights.

Wow - that is a big leap from a person shaving in a locker room and someone taking their photo. In the original incident in the thread no one was naked, no one was committing violent crime, and while I am not sure what CSAM is, I'm pretty sure no one was downloading that.

You are talking about violent crimes. These can happen literally anywhere. Police officers commit them in police cars, medical personal commit them in hospitals, school teachers in schools, clergy in churches, sports coaches, etc. A locker room can also be the setting, but judging from what we know if is more likely that straight identifying males commit these crimes against weaker males. So maybe we need to focus more on violence and the acceptance of sexual aggression and less on how this single person in a locker room identifies.

[WellPreserved]

Never said your definition was "false." I said it is an oversimplification to define this based on a single organ. There is more nuance in humans, and apparently in many other mammals. And not everyone falls completely into one category or the other.

There are people whose genetics are xxy instead of xx or xy, rare, but they definitely exist…but that’s not really what we’re talking about.

We’re discussing if men can decide that they are now women and go into women’s spaces, where they are naked without question… whether or not that should be their right to do so.

I am saying “no” just deciding you’re a female doesn’t literally change your S*x. Many people are disagreeing with me and saying, yes… it does literally change your S*x so all scientific studies that go over the statistical differences in male and female actions are invalid.

There are a lot of differences between men and women, both physically and statistical actions.
Men commit more violent crimes.
Men commit more rapes.
Men commit more sexual abuse crimes.
Men will statistically be more likely to download CSAM.

Plenty of women feel unsafe undressing in front of a naked strange man. They should feel that way. That instinct keeps them safe more often than we would like to admit.



This is the question of whether or not a man can say he’s now a woman, so none of those statistics matter anymore, so all the reasons why women wanted private spaces from men to undress are now an assault on my rights.

Wow - that is a big leap from a person shaving in a locker room and someone taking their photo. In the original incident in the thread no one was naked, no one was committing violent crime, and while I am not sure what CSAM is, I'm pretty sure no one was downloading that.

You are talking about violent crimes. These can happen literally anywhere. Police officers commit them in police cars, medical personal commit them in hospitals, school teachers in schools, clergy in churches, sports coaches, etc. A locker room can also be the setting, but judging from what we know if is more likely that straight identifying males commit these crimes against weaker males. So maybe we need to focus more on violence and the acceptance of sexual aggression and less on how this single person in a locker room identifies.

Absolutely! We also need to stop treating male aggression and violence as a biologically inherent trait.